Talk:Cantatas, BWV 91-100 (Bach, Johann Sebastian)

Reorganizing cantatas and help requested

Typeset files of Cantate BWV100 have been submitted. Unfortunately my .sib file with the string parts gave a 'corrupt' error. Bach string score & parts BWV100 (.sib)

BWV 100 - Was Gott thut, das ist Wohlgethan (Bach, Johann Sebastian)-- Snailey _{Yell at me Email me} 12:17, 26 March 2009 (EDT)

Why are we setting up a separate page for Cantata 100? Unless we really want to open an enormous can of worms, I recommend placing the parts on this page. I also seriously question the usefulness of a score consisting only of the string parts. It's entirely possible that in the future we'll have to consider setting op each of the more than 200 cantatas with its own workpage, but let's have some discussion on the issue before undertaking such a re-organization. Carolus 00:43, 27 March 2009 (EDT)

A separate page for cantata 100 will keep the main cantata page at least tidy. String players need to write bowing articulation in their parts, which is a specific necessity for them. The Creative Common - BY license allows us to print out, copy these parts and use them for a concert, which will give these parts a good use. And that is a pretty good reason to allow that subpage instead of 'just removing' that. I'm not going to put this page back. If you would have some respect for my work, you could have as well moved the score and parts to this page. w_m0zart 11:07, 27 March 2009 (EDT)

Wolfgang, the score and parts you produced are on this page, in the Parts section. The string parts themselves are indeed useful, which is why I moved them here, along with the partial score of string parts only, which could be of some use for players working on the Cantata - though it could be confusing to potential users as well, which is why I questioned its usefulness overall. As I stated above, we're not yet ready to set up separate pages for each of the more than 200 Cantatas, though this may become necessary in the future as more and more files are added. We will have to have some discussion about such a major reorganization of the Bach category before proceeding with creating separate pages for each Cantata, though. Nothing you posted was deleted, it was simply moved to this page. No disrespect was intended. Carolus 18:27, 27 March 2009 (EDT) (IMSLP Copyright Admin)

Carolus, it's good you moved the page. Regardless of the location of the music, my only hope is that people will take benefit from that in the same way as what I had been hoping for myself. (But couldn't find, because it just wasn't there yet).

Missing Page Problem

In IMSLP #01352 (BWV 100), page 283 is missing. Page 315 is in its place.

Right on, another contributor.

A couple notes on the uploads from the Bach project style guidelines:

Only the music portion of that particular book should be used; the preface of all the BGA books will be submitted to IMSLP seperately.

All non-preface pages of a BGA book should be accounted for, except for empty pages at the beginning and end. Work title pages should be included in the resulting PDF file. If there are multiple works after a single title page, the title page should go with the first work.

http://www.imslp.org/index.php?title=Bach-Gesellschaft_Ausgabe_project_style_guidelines

-- Shikamoo (I signed for you; you can sign yourself using "--~~~~" --Feldmahler 22:00, 25 August 2006 (EDT))

• What Shikamoo mentioned is one problem (reading the BGA guidelines is also a good idea), but an even more important problem is that neither of you are using the "add a file to this work page" links to add files (I don't know about the work page itself, but it'd also be a good idea to use a similar link on the composer page to create the work page, just for consistency, and simiarily for the composer page itself). Ironically, this is a good thing right now, because it allows us to correct the first problem in this case (by resplitting and reuploading the file; I will delete the first file for you so you can reupload it). Once a work is entered into the database via the "add a file to this work page" link, removing it is fairly messy, though you shouldn't concern yourself *too* much with it (just try to avoid it happening and if it does happen, tell me so I can tell you how to fix it, which depends on the circumstance).

Basically, using the "add a file" function is the *only* way you can get your file name into the seperate IMSLP catalogue number database (this is to prevent tempering/modification of IMSLP catalogue numbers). If you get an MYSQLFETCHERROR, this means the file does not exist in the database.

Anyway, a good idea for both of you right now might be to familarize yourselves with the generic submission guide and guidelines. :)

--Feldmahler 22:00, 25 August 2006 (EDT)

Adding Files

Hi Feldmahler,

I actually did use the "add a file to this work page" link in attempt to add info on the two individual cantatas I uploaded from Volume 22. That's when I got the MySQL fatal error business. So in an attempt to put something there, I used the "edit" link. I notced that you have set up a file naming convention of four digits for the BWV number, which is very logical. I think the first PDF I upload did notused this naming convention.

Another question for you: As some of the prefaces in the BGE (BGA) volumes pertain to the source material for individual cantatas, would it not be more helpful to the end user of the PDF file to have the pertinent pages available, along with any alternate movements for the cantata in question? That's how I set up the two PDF files I uploaded. I'll strip out the preface and alternate movements and re-submit if you like. I just thought you might appreciate my reasoning for compiling the files the way I did.

I have very robust PDF editing capabilities here, as I work with PDFs every day on a professional basis. Not only do I have the full version of Acrobat, but I also own the PitStop plug-in, which allows considerable manipulation of PDF files.

Regards,

Carolus

Reply

Hmm... the MySQL error is weird, maybe you can upload the files again and I'll try to submit it this time? Or it might just be the MySQL server throwing a fit (it does that sometimes, though very rare). Anyway, I've deleted the two files you uploaded (BWV 91 & 92), so you can upload them again.

For the preface, I've noticed the reason you did that even before you wrote it here (just look at one [I think it was BWV 92] of the delete messages in the Deletions Log) :) However, I'll give the following reasons why I still stand by my choice:

1. It is simple. If the prefaces are put on another page, it essentially turns each BGA book into a series of neat chunks. Being simple means that there is less chance of someone making a mistake.
2. This also makes the BGA book easy to reassemble, for anyone interested. Because the preface doesn't put the commentary for each piece on a seperate page, there would be many redundancies if the preface pages went with each piece, and reassembling the BGA book would be all but impossible.
3. There are a fair number of submitters in the BGA project. To coordinate everyone to do a complex thing is not that easy; simpler things are much easier to coordinate, and run a *much* lesser risk of human error. I understand that such things as splitting prefaces must be very easy for an editor/musicologist such as yourself, but other submitters may struggle to understand the German (I'm not terribly fluent with German myself, though apparently I can get by). Even with a simple format such as what I've proposed, I will probably still need to have someone double check all the Bach submissions (including my own), not because I don't trust the submitters, but because everyone makes mistakes, even if the task is easy, and of course the possibility for mistakes increase proportionally as the task gets more complex.
4. If someone is interested in the preface, they should have no problems or experience any inconvenience with downloading the preface from a seperate page, and locating the section that talks about the piece in question. Anyone who is interested in the preface is usually either a musicologist or someone who is very serious in studying Bach's pieces.

I guess the main reason splitting the preface didn't even come to my mind was because it'd be too complex to coordinate well and "pull it off". Still, I understand very well where you're coming from, just that it might not be ideal in such a situation (the gain is not terribly great anyway).

Yours, --Feldmahler 03:34, 26 August 2006 (EDT)

P.S. I've created a preface work page (for books 1-10), in case you want to see the format used in creating preface work pages.

Good Explanation

I see where you're coming from, Feldmahler. Your point about keeping it as simple as possible is certainly a valid one. Ditto for your observation that not everyone has the ability to slice and dice PDF files like I do. Ten copies of the basic preface material would indeed be a pain.

At any rate, I'll strip the preface material and anhangs and re-submit 91 and 92 shortly. Perhaps the MySQL errors will sort themselves out then (we can only hope).

Reply

If you still get error messages, post them here :)

--Feldmahler 00:52, 27 August 2006 (EDT)

Update: I tried submitting and I now see the error you are mentioning. It is indeed a weird error (never encountered it before) and I will look into it.

Update again: Bug fixed (see notes on IMSLP #01338). I see that you are uploading in bulk... Special:AWCMultiFileUploader might interest you :)

Continuing errors

Maybe its my aging Mac system here - who knows . At any rate, I just uploaded scores for Cantatas 92-95, went into the edit window to add descriptions, and the links to the PDFs themselves still show a SQL error!! Another thing, did you notce how the description for Cantata 91 differs from the others - putting line breaks in certain field names - in the display?

This site has been acting strangely tonight in general. To start with the URL imslp.org takes one directly to the PHP forum, not the website proper. To make matters more confusing, I got a Wiki error page when I went to imslp.ca initially, though that seems to have corrected itself since then.

I'll continue to upload more cantatas tomorrow. It's gettng late here. The files now uploaded for Cantatas 91-95 are all in the format requested. If it's OK with you, I'll add the preface for Vol 22 to the one you already have for Cantatas 1-10. Perhaps someone can do a decent English translation in the future. I can hack my way through the Deutsch for the most part, but having the preface in English would be of great benefit to anyone seriously insterested in performing the works. I'll split the 'anhangs' into a sparate file, as was done previously for other volumes. One way or another, we'll have the entire BGE up and available before too long. Then we can get a hold of the complete Mozart edition, the Schubert, Schumann, Brahms, Berlioz and Mendelssohn gesammtausgabe that the monster music factory in Leipzig turned out before the onset of the First World War (for the most part, some of the Brahms voumes were later as I recall). I think it would be wonderful to have this canon of classical music available for anyone interested!

Reply

To be honest, I really *really* hate this host. They have next to no technical support and their MySQL server goes down a fair bit in addition to throwing tantrums from time to time. Too bad I didn't know that *before* I ordered the entire year of hosting -_- However, I will still try to figure out why it's denying your submissions, and, seemingly, your submissions only. A question that I have is whether the "Add a file" form actually submit successfully? I.e. did the MYSQLFETCHERROR appear after the form seemingly successfully completed? (if the submit was successful you should be automatically redirected to the work page)

Regardless, I'll recheck the code to make sure it's not some coding sloppiness on my end.

About the complete editions, that is exactly what I want IMSLP to do. The problem is that I have not been able to get a hold of other complete editions... if you know of a place to get them, point me there. It might be possible to just start several composers at once, so that people can select their favorite composer to do, and more people will join in the project this way.

--Feldmahler 02:58, 27 August 2006 (EDT)

Solution

I was comparing the changelog, and I realized what was wrong. You were copying the code of the first submission, and then changing the values with the edit page for each new file, which means that the file name has not yet entered the IMSLP catalogue database (which is a seperate database from the wiki, to prevent vandalism).

All submissions to IMSLP need to be made via the "Add a file to this work page" link that is at the end of the Music Files section (and for that particular page, the link points here, but it will always be different for each page, so be sure to use the link on the work page itself for another page). If you want to submit mutiple files at once, use the "Add multiple files to this work page" link. Basically, the main work that both pages do which you can't do through the wiki is register the file with the external IMSLP catalogue database.

For the line breaks... it's because of HTML autoformatting. In this case it is that the comments are too long, and robbed the space of the other column (the entire file thing is basically a table with two columns). You can delete my comments for that file, since they are irrelevent :)

For imslp.org pointing to the forums... I still have to figure out what's wrong first (it works fine here...). Good thing is that I can jump to another host when I find a good one (i.e. I'm not terribly broke *yet*).

--Feldmahler 03:23, 27 August 2006 (EDT)

P.S. I'll delete the "fake" submissions again... if you need any info from them you can look at the history of the page.

Things appear to be working

I just added the rest of volume 22 and all of volume 23 with no problems. The only minor suggestion I have for the 'add multiple titles' form would be to have multiple page count fields like those already in place for file names and descriptions. It's not a big deal as I simply go into the edit window and add the pages counts manually as it is.

Reply

Good idea. I forgot about that one lol. Will do asap. --Feldmahler 02:03, 29 August 2006 (EDT)

And done. It should be fine, but if it breaks for some reason, tell me. --Feldmahler 02:19, 29 August 2006 (EDT)