Talk:In the Forest (Čiurlionis, Mikalojus Konstantinas)

Will score be available?

Hallo. It would be good to see a score for this piece. Will it be available soon, or is it one of those pieces where copyright will prevent it from being shown for years? There are pieces listed on this site which are under copyright and can't be shown for years to come - I don't really see the point of listing them if they can't be displayed - but it shows that just because a page for a piece is started, it doesn't mean the score will appear.

I'd also like to see a score for "The Sea" by Ciurlionis, too. It has a page, but with only Piccolo and Flute parts shown so far. Do you also have this, and can it be shown publicly?

Thanks. M.J.E. 16:23, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

This should be public domain, because of the state enterprise status of Muzyka - should be available once a copyright reviewer has had a look. The Sea will follow in a few weeks - got a copy per interlibrary loan, its again a Muzyka edition (1965) --Kalliwoda 17:58, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

OK, here's the problem. Canada's law states that a the term of copyright starts running when a work is first published. So, if it was published for the first time only in 1975, it's protected in Canada until 2026. Interestingly, this is one of the few cases where Canada's law is more restrictive than either the USA or the EU. In the USA, it's free because it was published before 1978 without a valid copyright notice. It's moreover not eligible for restoration under GATT/TRIPS because the composer was PD in his country of origin by 1996. It's likewise PD in the EU thanks to the Editio Princeps rule of 25 years for a first publication. So, if anyone can prove that the work was actually first published (in whatever form) over 50 years ago, then it would actually be free in Canada as well. See why publication information can be so important? Carolus 05:06, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
Music Information Lithuania lists an adaptation for piano fourhand published Moscow 1957, but the 1975 imprint is listed as a first edition of the full score ( So, if Muzyka imprints have 50 year protection in Canada then "The Sea" (ed. 1965) should be blocked until 2015 (no previous edition there at all)? --Kalliwoda 07:10, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
Who made the piano four-hand transcription? Whether or not the composer's own, the work itself was then first published in 1957, not 1975 and therefore free in Canada (and now tagged accordingly). The legal doctrine of publication in many countries holds that once any version is published, all extant versions are published at the same time. If The Sea was not published in any form until 1965, it's tied up in Canada until 2016. I suppose that you could ask the Lithuanian Music Society if they would grant permission for the work to appear at IMSLP as they would presumably own any theoretical copyright in Canada. Carolus 07:44, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
Thank you for all the effort you put into this, but now I have caused the blocking of the parts of "The Sea". Are you now stricter in your decisions than previously? I refer to the entry in the copyright instructions under Russia: "editions of public domain works issued by Muzyka, the Soviet state music publishing agency, are generally considered to be in the public domain, as they were prepared by state employees working for a government agency, and the copyright owner (the USSR) ceased to exist in late 1991" --Kalliwoda 12:33, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

That only applies for editions of PD works - the works themselves still have copyright (otherwise...shostakovich, rachmaninov, ravel, stravinsky, etc. could be uploaded!)-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 12:47, 7 September 2009 (UTC)