| Toeschi's Viola d'amore sonata ⟨User:Fynnjamin⟩ |
[#12643] |
Dear Fynnjamin: Why would this be an arrangement if it is for the same instrumentation as the original? I realize the incompleted piece was "completed" by the editor, but doesn't that make it an "edition"? Becky
| Posted at 06:13, 13 January 2016 by Steltz (administrator) |
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Surely it does. There is an added keyboard realization of the continuo, which always counts as an arrangement of sorts - it is an edited transcription, even if the instrumentation is technically the same.
| Posted at 10:44, 13 January 2016 by Fynnjamin |
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Dear Fynnjamin: The problem is that if you look at other pages with realizations, those realizations are not under the Arrangements tab:
12 Flute Sonatas, Op.2 (Locatelli, Pietro Antonio)
or the Bach flute sonatas, for example. They are treated as editions.
| Posted at 06:18, 14 January 2016 by Steltz (administrator) |
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Hmm, you are right to some extent. Urtext editions such as the Locatelli example ought not to be treated as Arrangements and Transcriptions as they clearly present the original material, showing what is editorial and what isn't. I'd be interested to hear what other users think, but there are plenty of other examples I'm sure
| Posted at 11:49, 14 January 2016 by Fynnjamin |
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Just a small observation: The 1st arrangement given on the Locatelli Op.2 page looks the same as the Bärenreiter edition under the scores tab. The continuo realisation is exactly the same so I am not sure why it treated as an arrangement. I also thought that these sonatas were for flute (or violin) and it doesn't look like there has been any arranging here to make it more suitable for the violin.
I am often confused by the way keyboard realisations are treated. Mostly editions (like Peters) which say "klavier and cello ad lib." are treated as arrangements, even though keyboard + cello is the most common continuo grouping. Often these realisations are less sparse than those given in urtext editions, but I wouldn't say they are therefore more authentic. this list has quite a few examples. Also taking some of the "arrangements" of Locatelli's op.2 as examples. What has Ferdinand David done that the Bärenreiter editors haven't. Too many notes in the left hand?
| Posted at 15:07, 14 January 2016 by Tim.willis1685 (administrator) |
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It's not just extra notes (notably octaves) in the left hand, F. David also tended to take extreme liberties with the musical material. Perhaps that is less obvious in this particular example. There's not a simple answer - I'm not totally opposed to the idea of leaving these editions und the Scores tab, but some HIP hardliners might have an issue with this presentation.
| Posted at 16:43, 14 January 2016 by Fynnjamin |
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I suspect that HIP people will know that only the bass line is original, and in any case, some of the better realizations have the upper parts in small notes, so for those editions it is very clear.
| Posted at 05:05, 15 January 2016 by Steltz (administrator) |
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alright - put it back, I don't mind.
| Posted at 08:36, 15 January 2016 by Fynnjamin |
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This issue has connections to copyright questions. If we have a"simple" realization, which only adds "the right hand" according to general rules (like in the case
of the Toeschi sonata)and which a specialized cembalist could play only using the bass line, this is not an arrangement and does not justify a copyright.
| Posted at 19:25, 15 January 2016 by Notenschreiber (administrator) |
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OK, I've moved it back. Thanks for the input, everyone. B
| Posted at 05:12, 16 January 2016 by Steltz (administrator) |
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