| Telemann, Concerto TWV 54:F1 ⟨User:Notenschreiber⟩ |
[#18266] |
Dear Notenschreiber:
I am trying to sort out an unknown tag on this page: Concerto for Violin, Oboe and 2 Horns, TWV 54:F1 (Telemann, Georg Philipp).
I see the changes that have been made, and I have Steven Zohn's book. I see where both available manuscripts are arrangements, and I see where Zohn says "The opening Vivace, with solo passage for oboe, violin, and horns, is in a type of ritornello . . ." (p.46) but I don't see where he says that that is the sum total of the soloists in this work, or where he gives an original instrumentation.
If both surviving manuscripts are arrangements, how do we know that the the original was oboe, violin and 2 horns?
Thanks, B
| Posted at 12:02, 9 August 2017 by Steltz (administrator) |
|
I think, the original instrumentation remains unclear. The concerto is something like Vivaldis "concerti con molti strumenti", for example this one
Concerto in C major, RV 558 (Vivaldi, Antonio). This has been tagged as "for orchestra".
| Posted at 12:46, 9 August 2017 by Notenschreiber (administrator) |
| I think it will have to be a generic concerto with more clarification at the bottom about what we don't know. The Vivaldi title is a good model -- it would end up as Concerto, TWV 54:51.
| Posted at 14:01, 9 August 2017 by Steltz (administrator) |
| Just have a look at what I've done and see what you think. B
| Posted at 14:37, 9 August 2017 by Steltz (administrator) |
| In the booklet of the CPO Cd we find:
Problems of source transmission are particularly
acute in the case of the Concerto in F major for two
horns, recorder, oboe, two cellos, strings and continuo
(TWV 51:F1, tracks 8–14). As with most of Telemann’s
concertos, the autograph, meaning the first full draft
in the composer’s hand, has not survived. The two
surviving sets of parts prove on closer inspection to be
arrangements of an earlier version that can no longer
be completely reconstructed. As Peter Huth has shown
in a special study, Telemann conceived the piece with
two additional chalumeaux. As these instruments were
unavailable at the Schwerin court and the Dresden
court chapel, the musicians responsible for chamber
music at these courts undertook massive changes in the
work’s design and scoring to make it playable for the
instruments at their disposal. We follow the Schwerin
version on our recording, it being closer to the work’s
original form than its Dresden counterpart. However,
both arrangements omit a second minuet movement in
which Telemann explored the delightful combination
of two horns and two chalumeaux (only the two horn
parts deleted by the arranger have survived). But as the
use of chalumeaux was most certainly not limited to this
movement alone, the arranger must have made further
alterations as well.
If we are not given the ‘complete’ Telemann in
this piece, at least the Schwerin version grants us
a fascinating glimpse into one of the must unusual
concertos from Telemann’s pen. The opening ritornello
movement (track 8) is followed by a two-section
Scherzando for recorder and solo violin above a D-minor
pizzicato accompaniment leading, as in the Concerto in
E-minor TWV 53:e2 (see Vol. III, tracks 11 and 13),
to a repeat of the expansive opening movement. (The
relevant instruction ‘Si replica’l Concerto precedente
’ was likewise deleted in Schwerin.)
There now follow four dance movements in the
manner of a suite (tracks 11–14): a three-part
Bourrée in which the two cellos play in concert with the two solo
violins, a Menuett heightened with anapaest rhythms
and dominated by the horns (as already mentioned, the
original central section, a second minuet, is missing),
a Loure that changes to D minor like the Scherzando,
and a final Gigue which again features triadic motifs
in the two horns. In short, we are given a hybrid form:
a suite-concerto.Telemann, it would seem, rarely turned to this
sort of hybrid form of concerto cum suite (an equally
unusual second example will appear in Series V of
our recording). Further, the scoring of our concerto, as
extravagant as it is richly hued, suggests that this work,
too, was written for a particular occasion. Perhaps it
originated in Frankfurt. perhaps in Hamburg, but
certainly not in Dresden or Schwerin, for Telemann was,
of course, fully aware of the instruments available to the
ensembles for which he wrote his music.
This seems to be best information we have and your changes of the workpage fit to these statements, i think.
| Posted at 15:24, 9 August 2017 by Notenschreiber (administrator) |
| Then I think I can scratch this one off my list. Thanks for your help. B
| Posted at 15:57, 9 August 2017 by Steltz (administrator) |
| Dear Notenschreiber: I have one more question about this before I create an arrangement tag that we might not need after all. As far as I can see in the Pisendel, there are three oboe lines, i.e. the concertato oboe part + two orchestral oboe parts.
Wouldn't the header need to be "For Violin, Oboe, 2 Horns, Orchestra and Continuo (Pisendel, Grundig)" or "For Violin, Oboe, 2 Horns, and Orchestra (Pisendel, Grundig)", since it isn't just a string accompaniment?
Thanks, B
| Posted at 10:35, 8 October 2017 by Steltz (administrator) |
| Yes, you are right, there are oboes in the tutti parts, we have more than a string orchestra. If we have an orchstra, the continuo is included, isn´t? So the best is
"Violin, Oboe, 2 Horns and Orchestra".
| Posted at 12:26, 8 October 2017 by Notenschreiber (administrator) |
| Yes, keyboard is included -- any keyboard part in a full orchestra is not tagged separately. Thanks, I think I can fix this one now. B
| Posted at 15:17, 8 October 2017 by Steltz (administrator) |
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