User talk:Schissel/archive5


Stanford quartets

Hi Eric, wherever you are. My "polishing" of Stanford 3 amounted to little more than knocking a few warts off, and you know what happens when you do that. Still, you can't expect a quartet dedicated to the Joachim Quartet to be easy-peasy. The second movement is clearly inspired by Brahms 3rd symphony but the rest seems quite original to me, especially the andante/fantasia. As a whole it seems much better than Cobbett would have us believe, and when I've revisited number 5 I'm starting to think I should take a look at the 4 unpublished ones. As you know, his successor at Cambridge, Charles Wood, also wrote 8 quartets which I've just ordered online - the next couple of years' work! Thanks for the encouragement, and I may even take a look at Kopylov soon. Very best, Steve


Surely the Tchaikovsky and Borodin quartets aren't so good as to prevent pieces like this from ever getting played? I thought the mood swings of the Introduction, hell-for-leather of the Scherzo, heavy doominess of the Andante and exuberance of the Finale go very well together. I suppose what counts against it for professional quartets is its very playability, and tendency to use the inner parts as "filler". Quite complicated working out all the changes of tempo, and I refrained from cranking the scherzo all the way up to the metronome mark! All the best, Steve

And Sokolov's 3rd, equally good I think. Of course you'll have to listen to the whole thing to get the full picture (cyclic touches as in the second quartet), but I found the finale particularly impressive with a beautifully worked fugue hinting at Op131 and the Grosse Fuge. Was this what he taught Shostakovitch? May try Steinberg tomorrow - terzettos a bit hard! Cheers, Steve


Yes, I'd think to not capitalize the Ye in the title of the R. King song as well. I also wanted to fix the mistaken capital "O" in the title but didn't know how :-) granto

O freudenreicher Tag (Fuchs, Robert)

Hi Eric, I'm not sure, but I think this should be tagged as a sacred chorus - it's a christmas carol (a sacred folksong as IN DULCI JUBILO etc.). Kind regards --Ralph Theo Misch 01:40, 9 December 2010 (UTC)


I'm convinced this is "our" best discovery yet! I love the late romantic language and the overall structure seems to have real weight and coherence, without any obvious cyclism. The first movement looks so innocent, obviously harking back to Borodin and Raz 1, and the little allusion to Schubert's Quartettsatz must have caused a few smiles, but then he really comes into his own with the scherzo and the rest, with enough references to the Russian school to make his nationality clear. Just downloaded his second symphony (Jarvi/Gothenburg/DG) which I'm sure you know and seems equally impressive. Who's next? - could even try Hirshbach or one you don't mention but which you must have cast an eye over before uploading - Krein's Poeme-quatuor. Cheers, Steve.

Preludes and Fugues, K.404a (Mozart, Wolfgang Amadeus)

Hi Eric, yes, it's a problem. For now, I would add the template CONTRIBUTED to that work page, as there is an official KV number that makes research easier. Who will look for those pieces at ANONYMOUS? But later this day - or night - I'll tell you something about my source. SYL --Ralph Theo Misch 10:47, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

These preludes and fugues didn’t even get into the spurious or dubious section of the Neue Mozart-Ausgabe, so there has to be some reasonable musicological evidence to cast enough doubt on them having any association with W.A.M., otherwise they would have made the cut. They don’t even rate a mention in the Anhang of Köchel 6th Edition, it seems. Philip Legge @ © talk 14:29, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

Hello Eric, hello Philip, I've also read the NMA dicussion. Well, I didn't find K.404a in Landon's Compendium neither. But in MGG:
"T. Bearbeitungen fremder Werke (arrangements on works by other composers). .....404a: 6dreist. Fugen (5 v. J.S. Bach, 1 v. W.F. Bach), einger. f. V., Va., B., m. 6 einleitenden Adagios, davon 4 v. M., nach E.-K. Wien 1782..." (article by Friedrich Lippmann).
My source is: Leipzig: Edition Breitkopf Nr. 5678, 1938. Plate 30956. The editor is Johann Nepomuk David (1895-1977). I bought the part books of the first 3 pieces (couples) from a library, some months ago, and made a full score, removing all editorial material (printed smaller). David's edition bases on a copy from the Bibliothek der Gesellschaft der Musikfreunde in Wien. He (David) writes that the autograph is unknown (unbekannt) and suspects that the copy from vienna bases on the original in the property of van Swieten. Phew! ;-) --Ralph Theo Misch 22:36, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

Yes, Einstein lumped them in Köchel-V.3a (1947) with the string quartet arrangements of Bach’s fugues KV 405, which are all based on WTC Book II (BWV 871, 876, 878, 877, 874), but there are as many as 16 arrangements of Bach fugues for various string combinations attributed to Mozart from the Van Swieten circle via a copyist, so the authentication of the ones other than KV 405, where André had a Mozart autograph for a source, is comparably weak. As you know, only four of the preludes in KV3a 404ª are original; the E prelude is a transcription of BWV 526/2; one of the F major preludes is of BWV 527/2. The four original preludes are an extremely self-effacing W.A.M., if they are his – the opinion since Einstein’s time seems to have hardened against them being so. I notice your typeset of No.1 explicitly credits the Prelude in D minor to “W.A. Mozart” without any hint of qualification – that seems to be questionable, in spite the above quotation from MGG.
By the way, I grokked all of your citation apart from the last abbreviation in “… davon 4 v. M., nach E.-K.” (i.e., [6 introductory Adagios] 4 of which are by Mozart, after “E.-K.”: who or what is E.-K.? I’m at home and would need to go to the library to consult the table of abbreviations (seeing as MGG on-line doesn’t help ;) Cheers Philip Legge @ © talk 03:42, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Sorry for those depths of German abbrevations. But if I try to translate, things not always become clearer ;|
E.-K. is not listed in the table of general abbr. - after some research I've found it: it simply means "nach Einsteins Annahme in oben zitierten Werken." ('according to Einstein's hypothesis in? those works cited above.'). Cited above is "Einsteins Chronologie (Köchel-Verz. ......" and again follows a ceremonious procession of abbreviations %( Definitely I'll add some words about the authenticity to my typeset. Cheers --Ralph Theo Misch 12:49, 12 December 2010 (UTC)


Thanks for the additions. He's a very under-rated composer IMO. Carolus 06:07, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Mozart-Cadenzas by A.E. Müller

Hi Eric, started to link between Müller and Mozart, but I'm not happy with this. Do you have a better idea? But there's no hurry - I'll be back not until next day. Thanks! --Ralph Theo Misch 01:33, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Wilm's string nonet

I expect you'll tell me it's been recorded a couple of times already, but I'm hoping I could be first with the only known string nonet! No staggering innovations but extremely well written and the slow movement I think is pretty gorgeous. Wonder what happened to the rest of his output? I'm hoping to get round to some of those Italian string quartets soon (of course I'll have to go to the library for the music..), but I'm wondering whether my upload of Steinberg's quartet contravenes UK performance rights? Hopefully Carolus will enlighten me. With a billion illegal mp3 downloads in the UK last year I'd be surprised if I get a knock on the door. Cheers, Steve.

Miles sextet

One more query before Christmas. I was able to convert your file to jpgs, crop the pages to exclude the unwanted logo and import them into Word, but the recreated PDF is now 18MB which seems a bit excessive. I can't reduce the size or compression of the jpgs without causing visible loss of quality. Do you have some arcane method for creating tiny PDF files? Shall I email you back the jpgs? Cheers, Steve.:

And re the Three Fantasy Pieces - this guy really knew what he was doing - pity he didn't do more of it! Definitely looking forward to the sextet now. All best, Steve

Gounod Quartets

It looks like there might actually be six altogether. The one I uploaded was originally numbered 3 to be sure, but I wonder if the numbering will change with the discovery and publication of the three other quartets. Carolus 04:26, 1 January 2011 (UTC)


Hi Schissel, just to let you know that the new category you created was moved to the full form of his name (i.e., 'Norris, Homer Albert') in accordance with the generally observed naming guidelines (which were first set down only a couple days ago, despite being followed more or less consistently for years without being solidified). Cheers, KGill talk email 21:00, 3 January 2011 (UTC)