Il y a une erreur dans l'intitulé : "Composer's reduction for piano 4-hands". Ce n'est pas une "réduction", tout au contraire : la version 4 mains est antérieure et a servi de base pour la version symphonique qui donc, elle, est une "orchestration". D'ailleurs les n° d'éditions (D. & F. 6999 et D. & F. 7216) vous le confirment.
- It is frequently termed a "reduction" in English because the forces involved were reduced from large orchestra to piano four hands. It's a little less common than when used for a piano concerto where the orchestra part has been "reduced" for a second piano. "Orchestration" would be a very misleading term, because there is no orchestra involved in this version. "Transcription" or "arrangement" would be other terms that might be employed to describe what Ravel did here. Carolus 23:36, 13 July 2008 (EDT)
- Je crois que vous n'avez pas bien compris ce que j'ai écrit : entre 1908 et 1910, Ravel a composé une partition pour piano 4 mains. Ensuite en 1911, il en a fait une orchestration, puis en 1912, un Ballet. En aucun cas il n'a fait une "réduction" de la partition. De même, si vous voulez, on ne peut pas dire ou écrire que Mussorgsky a fait une réduction de l'orchestration des Tableaux d'une exposition de Ravel. I think that you did not very well understand that I wrote: between 1908 and 1910, Ravel composed a partition for " piano 4 hands ". Then in 1911, it made a "orchestration", then in 1912, a "Ballet". Under no circumstances, he made a "reduction" of partition. Also, if you want, we cannot say or write that Mussorgsky made a "reduction" of the orchestration of the Pictures of an exhibition of Ravel. Hautbois 00:32, 17 July 2008 (EDT) (sorry for my poor English)
- Hi, Your English was fine. In other words, you claim that Ravel first composed the piano four-hands version (1908-1910), then orchestrated it in 1911. This is directly contradicted the evidence presented in Arbie Orenstein's biography Ravel, Man and Musician. The third movement, Habanera, was re-worked by the composer from an earlier version which was the first movement of the Sites Articulaires for 2 pianos (1895-97). The other three movements were composed in 1907-1908. The orchestrated Rapsodie Espagnole was first performed on 15 March 1908 by the Colonne Orchestra, conducted by Edouard Colonne. The composer's orchestral manuscript is dated: 1 February 1908. The piano-four hands version was prepared at about the same time, perhaps slightly before. Both versions were issued by Durand in 1908. Since it's possible the four-hand version came a bit earlier, we changed the page to reflect this. Carolus 01:19, 17 July 2008 (EDT)
- OOOOUPS !!! Je me suis "emmêlé les pinceaux" et j'ai indiqué les dates de "Ma mère l'Oye" (je viens de réécrire l'article sur wiki fr). Mais je crois que le problème de fond était le même. Je vais vérifier. OOOOUPS !!! I " got tangled up brushes " and I pointed out the dates of " Ma mère l' Oye " (I have just rewritten the article on wiki fr). But I think that thorough problem was the same. I am going to control. Hautbois 06:54, 19 July 2008 (EDT) (my english is very " automatic translator " ;)
- Hi. Just to butt in here, I concur with Carolus' synopsis of the creation and subsequent orchestration of the composition; it's precisely as he describes and as Professor Orenstein points-out in his biography of Ravel. For more information on the matter, see pages 166-168 in his book. Daphnis 16:03, 19 July 2008 (EDT)
- … grand merci Carolus d'avoir rectifié ainsi les intitulés. C'est exactement ce que je voulais dire ! …thank you very much Carolus to have rectified titles so. It is exactly what I wanted to tell ! Hautbois 11:05, 21 July 2008 (EDT) (it is necessary that I learn english ! ;)
