User talk:Pierre.chepelov/Archive 2006-2011


Re: Error in Bach-Ausgabe file

Hi. Thanks for letting know. Unfortunately, that is not the only page error in the BGA files. Actually we can't do anything to find the missing pages because all circulating BGA copies seem to be the same anonymous scan with a lot of pagination errors. I have put a notification on the work page. cheers --Peter talk 17:18, 26 August 2007 (EDT)

Couperin: Pièces d'Orgue

Thanks for cleaning that up! I forget to do these things sometimes when I'm busy doing copyright checking and tagging. Carolus 22:41, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

You're welcome! Sometimes I do that kind of work. If it helps... Pierre.chepelov 14:06, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

EU / France Copyright question

Hi, About Rachmaninoff - Is he covered for a full 70pma in the EU, or does the EU's "Rule of the Shorter Term" apply? Also, what about some of the posthumous issues by Muzgiz? In the USA, he is not covered at all by the GATT/TRIPs restorations due to the fact that he became a US Citizen (about a month before his death). Also, his primary place of residence was the USA starting in the 1920s, as I recall. Carolus 22:45, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Hi, I think that in the EU Rachmaninov should be considered as non-European: yes, the Rule of the shorter term should apply; except for works first published within EU countries - I suppose, most of them? - which are considered as "European works" covered by 70pma until 2014 (France: Oct. 2028).
Posthumous issues are covered the same way, except for future posthumous issues, that would be published after 2014 (F:2028) and would be then protected for 50 years.
As a general rule in the EU Muzgiz or so editions are treated the same way as "capitalist" ones - we don't know the concept of gouvernemental issues being PD...
But, these Muzgiz posthumous issues, as non-European, should be handled with the Rule of the shorter term - so the question is: are they still protected under Soviet/Russian law?
Things are different for Stravinsky: since he became French in 1934 (before being American), he is considered 100% European.
Another thing: Works first published in the USA, even before 1923, would be considered as published in Germany, and treated as such, in Germany alone.Pierre.chepelov 07:12, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the info! Nearly all of Rachmaninoff's work was issued first in Russia, before 1918. Gutheil, his main publisher, was absorbed by Koussevitzky's Edition Russe de Musique in 1914. Edition Russe had offices in both Berlin and Paris, though its main office was in St. Petersburg (Petrograd) until 1917 or 1918. (Koussevitzky sold Edition Ruuse to Boosey & Hawkes in 1947.) Rachmaninoff had a residence in Switzerland, though his he lived most of the year in the USA from 1918 onward. Since neither Russia, Switzerland, or the USA are part of the EU, I expect that "Rule of the Shorter Term" applies for at least any items first issued before 1914. Why, BTW, would it be 2028 in France? I thought the wartime extensions only applied for those who lived in France, or at least the EU. Carolus 18:17, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

2028 in France would'nt apply because of the composer living in the EU, but would apply if composer is European and/or if the work was first published in the EU.
Before 1995 we used to apply the wartime extensions only to French citizens or work pub. in France -the other countries, even European, where treated under the Berne rules-, but I heard of a case (in the 2000's) at the European court in Luxembourg, stating that before 1995 same treatment should have been given to Europeans as to French... Pierre.chepelov 21:53, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Corrected composer names

Hi! Thanks for doing research to determine the full names of lesser-known composers. However, you have in a couple cases that I've come across simply left the old category (e.g. 'Groth, F.C.') and entered the full name below the composer template. To really correct this, you can simply (1.) create a new composer category (just create a new page titled appropriately- Category:Groth, Fredrik Christian- with the exact wiki formatting of the old one) and (2.) move all pages from the old category to the new one. You notice that the name of every work page includes the composer name; this is because it allows any autoconfirmed user to move pages into new composer categories. So the new name of the page would be, for instance, '6 New English Dances (Groth, Fredrik Christian)'. After you're finished that part, you can (3.) redirect the old category to the new one (making sure to remember to put a colon in front of 'Category:', so that the old page doesn't show up as a subcategory of the new one). Thanks, KGill talk email 02:04, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for the tutorial! I looked for a 'rename' button and thought only admins could do that. Now I'll follow your instructions! Pierre.chepelov 21:55, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

CD Sheet Music

Hi, It's probably better to use Commercial source so as to not draw any unwanted attention from them. In light of the recent series of threats of the British National Gallery made towards Wikipedia, it is far too easy to simply file lawsuits, irrespective of whether there is any legal merit in the assertions. Thanks, Carolus 21:37, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

I understand! BTW, I own 3 CD's of CDSM (Schubert & Schumann low voice / French Art Songs) that I bought a few years ago. By now I don't have time to remove all watermarks (for this one I hade a urge to do this!), but I could upload the whole somewhere, if it helps.Pierre.chepelov 21:42, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

I'll send you a PM on the forum with the address, etc. of the FTP server. You can upload things there so anyone with access and time to clean/process the files can do so. Carolus 22:00, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

French Capitalization

Hi, can you please refrain from altering the capitalization on French titles? Feldmahler long ago decided along with my input to use the library standard for French which capitalizes only the first word, even if it is an article, and only proper nouns thereafter. I realize there are other methods which may be acceptable but the Grove Dictionary of Music and libraries worldwide use the method I've described. Thank you -- Massenetique 23:03, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

Agnete and the Merman, Op.3 (Gade, Niels)

I know you uploaded this late last year, sorry to be late in asking this... This seems to be the same work more or less as Agnete and the Mermaids (Gade, Niels) - I can try to merge the two pages (definitely keeping the opus number, of course) but if you'd rather (assuming they are, in fact, the same piece?) Eric 13:04, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Agnete and the Mermaids (1849) was made with 2 songs from Agnete and the Merman (1842): #3 (Agnete's Lullaby) and #2 (Choir of the Mermaids) of the 6 songs published in 1845 (#38717) plus some other material (solo by Agnete, p.8-9 of the vocal score #01675) and a coda based on the preceding choir; I don't know whether this material was new in Agnete and the Mermaids, or was taken from Agnete and the Merman (which originally contained 8 songs). (See the link in Danish on the page.)
When I uploaded the scores of A. and the Merman, there was already a work page for A. and the Mermaids, so I created a page for the original work.
My opinion is that A. and the Mermaids is a new work based on elements of the opus 3, but I can understand if you consider it as an arrangement of the preceding work. If you want to merge the pages, the more logical would be to retain only A. and the Merman, op.3. But, maybe it would be more complicated for the tagging system? Pierre.chepelov 21:21, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Well, for one thing, I should have paid more attention, as I did think they were the same work and probably would have realized they weren't if I had :) Hrm. Can you think of a few parallel cases (works built from parts of another work and scored differently, but different enough and considered independent enough to not exactly be arrangements?) Probably legion... Depends on how we treated them as they came up. I'll try to think of some when I've had dinner and given this headache a little time to go away (excuses, excuses- sorry!). And as to tagging, will think about that too- vocal and choral works (even Romantic ones- though less so than pre-Classical ones) seem to be more trouble (for me...) there (so far, so far :) ) Thanks! Eric 21:53, 19 September 2010 (UTC)


Salut Pierre, J'ai vu que tu avais transféré toutes les compos sur un seul des 2 frères. C'est une drôle d'idée pour des parents d'appeler ses 2 rejetons José ! Je me suis demandé dans un premier temps, bien qu'il soit marqué José Cor-de-Lass (frère) sur certaines partoches, s'il ne s'agissait pas d'une seule et même personne. Apparemment c'en est bien 2. La BNF se trompe. Il y en a un qui est exclusivement édité sur Paris par Costallat, l'autre en grande partie sur Lyon par Rey, Janin ou Maroky dans des années identiques. J'ai vu qu'il y en a un qui, pianiste, jouait du chopin dans les salons parisiens dans des chroniques de +- 1890. Il sont d'origine espagnole. Je retransfère ou tu t'en occupes ?. Ca se passe bien ta rentrée ? Squin 19:57, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Salut ! La rentrée va bien, merci.
As-tu des données indiquant qu'il(s) serai(en)t deux ? "José de Cor-de-Lass" est déjà un pseudonyme, et j'ai tendance à penser que "(Frère)" n'est qu'une décoration supplémentaire de ce pseudo, certes utilisée seulement chez Costallat et Gallet... J'ai cherché dans le Pazdirek ([1], [2]), ça ne m'a pas appris grand'chose.
Pour ce qui est de la musique, il n'y a pas une grande différence stylistique ! C'est un peu la même "soupe"... (Comme dirait La Fontaine, "si ce n'est lui..." :-)
Visiblement, il était aussi chef d'orchestre ([3], [4])
Ici il n'a l'air qu'un.
Et puis il y a aussi "Senor Cor-de-Lass", "A. de Cor de Lass"... Si seulement Google nous laissait lire ses livres...

T'as peut-être raison, Y'a mêmel'hypothèse que le frangin ai été un politique qui obligeât l'autre à se démarquer pour qu'il ne soit pas confondu(type les frères Léotard, le ministre et l'artiste alcoolo) puis on va pas se crêper le chignon pour ce qui n'est quand même pas du Debussy ou du Fauré.. question "soupe" ton mot est choisi, soupe d'époque, du genre bien recuit type " pot-au-feu" A + Squin 17:22, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

J'en ai trouvé un ! Alonso Cor-de-Las avec un seul s (Murcia 1865 - Milan 1933) actif en Suisse dans les années 1908-09 [Jacques Burdet La musique dans le pays de Vaud 1904-1939 Lausanne: Payot, 1983].. Je renonce à trouver l'autre ! Je te dois une bière ? Ce sera à l'occasion... Squin 15:36, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Attends Pierre... Je regarde et je vois que tu as mis une date de décès 1904 pour José... Donc selon tes infos et les miennes je réalise maintenant que Alonso est peut-être José-frère, ce qui me ferait grandement plaisir car alors c'est toi qui me devrait une bière ! Squin 16:00, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Hypothèse : il y a 2 Cor-de-Lass qui sont frères, mais pas 2 José.
− le n° 1 est "Senor" Alonso Cordelas / Cordelás / de Cor-de-Lass / Cor de Las − né à Murcia en 1865 (moins que ce ne soit 1856 [5], ou en 1861 [6]), il est d'abord pianiste, élève à St-Pétersbourg ([7]) de Rubinstein, se fait connaître dès 1886-88 comme accompagnateur de Sarasate [8], puis comme spécialiste de Chopin ([9], [10], [11]), il compose un peu, est publié en Allemagne [12], puis mène une carrière de chef (Madrid 1903, Monaco 1908, Munich 1908 Lausanne) et meurt le 24 octobre 1933 [13]. Photo : [14] (source : [15]).
− le n° 2 est José-Marie-Ignace Cordelas / de Cor-de-Lass qui est probablement le cadet du précédent, avec qui il partage la même fantaisie orthographique, mais dont il se distingue en indiquant "Frère" à l'occasion. Il est aussi pianiste (et donne des cours [16]), peut-être aussi chef, mais compose plus que son frère, et s'est fixé en France (concert 1890) − entre Lyon et Paris. Il meurt en 1904.
Bon, ça vaut pas mal de bières, non ? Pierre.chepelov 21:55, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Lumineux !! Squin 05:46, 16 October 2010 (UTC)


Salut Pierre, Exact je vais fusionner c'est mieux... tout sous une dénomination simple "Motets"... Les bas de page A4 c'est donné comme ça par la BNF en téléchargeant les quelques fichiers manuscrits disponibles d'un bloc avec "télécharger le document en entier". Je trouvais aussi que c'était gênant. Il faudrait les retravailler... c'est possible ? Je ne sais pas faire... Mais il y a très peu de manuscrits accessibles ainsi, donc peu que j'ai envoyés vers imslp. La BNF a apparemment décidé rapidement de changer de manière de faire : Les autres manuscrits (ou vieilles éditions) doivent être captés page par page en jpeg puis groupés, et là les pdf sont en pleine page. Au fait, pour le virtuose de la perspicacité que tu es, j'ai regardé et transféré des partitions de "René Chesnet", sur qui je ne trouve aucun renseignement. Si tu as du temps pour y regarder... Itou pour une "Hélène Ciolacou" ou "Ciolac", je suppose que son nom est roumain à l'origine : "Ciolacu" Squin 06:00, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Salut, voilà la manip (avec imagemagick et autre outils en ligne de commande...) Il se trouve que les images sont à la bonne taille, c'est la mise en page qui ne va pas !
pdfimages original.pdf couperin
convert couperin*.pbm -density 4.5 -compress group4 couperin%02d.tif
tiffcp couperin*.tif couperin.tiff
tiff2pdf couperin.tiff -o couperin.pdf
Pour le reste je vais voir ! Pierre.chepelov 23:20, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Hummmm, ça ressemble a du chinois pour moi ce genre d'explication... faut que j' y regarde de plus près..... Squin 13:59, 6 November 2010 (UTC)


T'es sûr que c'est un Supérius ? vraiment ? vraiment absolument ? j'ai regardé de près, de très près la partition : eh bien, tu me croiras ou pas, y'a des clés de sol partout avec marqué Supérius sur toutes les pages ! (la p.164 Toulouse en faisait cadeau si on prenait tout le lot )...Squin 20:35, 10 November 2010 (UTC) PS : Tu ne m'embêtes pas !


Hi Pierre. After a rather lengthy discussion it's been decided to override LC and move him back to the Danish form of his name (i.e., Glæser). Cheers, KGill talk email 01:39, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Hi − Thank you for letting me know - I didn't follow the thread. Well, I'm sorry for the tension. − Cheers, Pierre.chepelov 22:12, 10 January 2011 (UTC)


Merci beaucoup pour l'assistance! --Ralph Theo Misch 23:35, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Erstes Heft (Z124/I): il est tard - je vais continuer demain.... --Ralph Theo Misch 23:55, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Salut Pierre, j'ai répondu ici. --Ralph Theo Misch 21:55, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

Et voilà un autre Zelter. Mais je suis trop fatigué pour continuer travailler. À demain! --Ralph Theo Misch 22:58, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Merci encore pour votre aimable coopération! Bientôt, il va continuer... --Ralph Theo Misch 23:06, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Sorry! - I didn't see that you're working on this - made an Undo Revision now. Thanks! --Ralph Theo Misch 09:12, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
BTW: Regarding No.9. of Z.120 I ask myself if it would be better to use the modern spelling of the title: Wer nie sein Brot mit Tränen aß. Especially the last word looks much better than the old one ;-) --Ralph Theo Misch 09:28, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
Hi, I just stopped, and didn't see your change!
Z.120-9: Indeed! − In fact, the score says "mit Thränen as".
Z.120-7: Is this from Herder or from von Diez? I followed what recmusic said. Pierre Ch. 18:46, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
Hi Pierre, Z.120-7 is by Diez. I've already changed it. All the best! --Ralph Theo Misch 10:45, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Me again. For Z.123 I already started with the list of librettists as it's rather exotic.
→ No.12. Gotthard Ludwig Theobul Kosegarten: What a pity - it would have been a nice user name; much better than Ralph Theo Misch... --Ralph Theo Misch 23:50, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Incredible name :-D ! BTW VIAF (and Wikipedia) seems to prefer Ludwig before Gotthard (and without Theobul, what a pity!). Pierre Ch. 16:18, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

BTW: That's funny: Do you already have discovered the spelling error at the title page of Z.123 →'Erster Heft'? - 'Erstes Heft' is correct, of course (also in 1802!). --Ralph Theo Misch 23:06, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

LOC and Levy

Hello Pierre, We have templates for both of these libraries. Look at the The_Lancers%27_Quadrille and you will see how they are employed. Cheers, Carolus 04:24, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

40 Mélodies Poésies françaises (Abt, Franz)

Cher Pierre, merci pour l'aide! --Ralph Theo Misch 23:19, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

Un plaisir ! Je fais juste ce à quoi je suis apte ;-) − Pierre Ch. 23:23, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

ok. for example...

"Arranged with Symphonies & Accompaniments" is not the name of an editor- I think (who knows with 19th century people)- but I think it goes under "Misc. notes". Eric 13:27, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

You're right! Thank you for the change. It is what the score says, and as it suggest it is an arrangement, I did put it there − in the wrong field. Well, I don't believe it is an arrangement − there is nothing "symphonic" in a voice and piano lied! Cheers − Pierre Ch. 21:22, 21 December 2011 (UTC)


you will notice that the LoC template does place the work in the category scores from the Library of Congress, however. I'm not happy with that either but many of the external link templates don't allow for that kind of specificity at present (and I notice that a lot of editors don't use the functionality when they do, unfortunately, e.g. {{SBB}}.) Then again, I admit that when (if?) the LoC template is improved, any external links that don't use it can be replaced with improved new LoC links. So on consideration I think you probably have the right of it. That, or use the LoC template and find somewhere else (e.g. miscellaneous information line) to place the source information (this is where I put the SBB link info before the SBB template was improved.) Thanks! Eric 20:44, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Hi Pierre! I responded to your post over at User talk:Schissel#LOC template and would like your feedback. Thanks! --Cypressdome 01:46, 23 December 2011 (UTC)