User talk:Piupianissimo

Free public domain sheet music from IMSLP / Petrucci Music Library

Hello Matthias, just leaving a note that I'm really impressed by your scans. Impressing how crisp but smooth the details can be even in monochrome. I wonder if the 1200 dpi makes the difference, because this seems to be far more than the optical resolution on paper. So when do you downsample to 600, before or after converting grayscale to monochrome? --Peter _talk 06:01, 13 February 2009 (EST)

Hi Peter, I'm very pleased to hear that. I was impressed myself when I saw the first results of the scans, even in a printout it looks like the originals. That's why I started scanning a few scores and put them here for the community. I don't know exactly, but I believe the downsampling is done by the scanners driver. It has a direct option for monocrome scans and also for up or downsizing (a Mustek BearPaw 4800 TA Pro scanner). I really wish other members would (or could) offer scans of the same quality here, because the printouts would be much more useful in my opinion. To say the truth, I also spent a lot of time with these scans, starting at the correct position on the scanner, putting some books on top, and sometimes extensive manual cleaning from dust pixels on the results. Hope this will help others for better results. There are so many fantastic scores around here, but it's not so easy to use them for playing.

I'l try to figure out if there are any viewable differences, when I scan at 600 dpi directly. Perhaps this really is the clue.

Thanks indeed for all these beautiful scans of piano music. I look forward to using many of these as soon as they print.-- Snailey _{Yell at me Email me} 09:04, 22 February 2009 (EST)

Really outstanding scans and clean-up job, Piupianissimo!! Thanks for the superb contributions, they're absolutely beautiful. Carolus 22:49, 7 June 2009 (EDT)

I agree with the above comments. I'm wondering what is this 4-point cleaning algorithm you mentioned in your notes for the Mazurka by Debussy? Is this removing any pixel that is not at least 4 connected to its eight neighbors? Or is it more sophisticated? I'm just curious? Horndude77 20:41, 20 June 2009 (EDT)

Yes, I'd like to know as well. Inspired by you, I'm now in the process of making high-quality scans of a couple Chopin Polonaises (Paderewski), which involves a lot of manual cleaning (since the scores are faded and crummy and I have to use a high threshold). Is there a program that does this for you, or did you write it yourself (wondering if IEEE invented it?), or is it a plugin or something for Photoshop (not having it myself, I have no idea). Would it be possible to post it on this site in a scanning-assistance section?--KGill 15:57, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Hi KGill, that was one of my intentions, to inspire other users making high-quality scans. So im really proud and happy about your reaction. I started to write a "cookbook" page (you can find it here) that should help you. -- Piupianissimo _talk 09:35, 31 July 2009 (CET)

Thanks for the page! Unfortunately, I don't get too much time, but in another week or so, I should have a new version of the Chopin G-Flat Polonaise up, and maybe I can do a few others in the future (if time permits...). I hope that we start to see some better quality in scanning!--KGill 16:47, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Contents 1 Henle 2 High Quality Scanning 3 New method 4 Schubert: 38 Waltzes, Ländler and Ecossaises, D.145 (Op.18) 5 Beautiful 6 Song, Wer nie sein Brot mit Tränen ass, S.297 (Liszt, Franz) 7 Brahms Low Voice Songs 8 6 Lieder, Op.85 (Brahms, Johannes)

Henle

Dear Piupianissimo, It appears that you have not removed Hans-Martin Theopold's fingerings from the scores uploaded. The fingerings are presumably original to Theopold and therefore do not fall under the Urtext provisions of German and EU copyright laws. Also, you should keep in mind that the item would be temporarily blocked for a few years here due to the failure of US courts to address the "threshold of originality" issue regarding critical editions of music. If you want to remove the fingerings and uploaded new versions of the files, I'll be happy to tag these V*/67/V* in hope that the temporary block [TB] will be lifted once there is a case before the US courts. Otherwise, I'll have to delete these - which I hate to do since you have done such exquisite work in cleaning up these scores. BTW, if you are interested in doing some cleaning professionally on a royalty basis, please send me an e-mail privately. Best Wishes, Carolus 14:49, 9 July 2009 (EDT) (IMSLP Copyright Admin)
Hello Carolus, I deleted the fingering and uploaded the score again. But I don't think that I will scan the other Valses of this edition until the copyright situation is clear and this Edition is PD.

High Quality Scanning

I like the page - contact people about it on the forums, and maybe we'll link it to the guide once it's really good.-- Snailey _{Talk to Me Email me} 18:30, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

New method

This is actually still fantastic (the other ones were so good that I had one taken to the print shop and made a poster out of one page - this isn't quite THAT good ;)-- Snailey _{Talk to Me Email me} 21:00, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Agreed, it's still amazing quality. Incidentally, what dpi was that- 600? (You said in the notes 'compared to my 1200dpi scans', so just wondering.)--KGill 23:21, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, I forgot to type in! It's 600dpi scans, directly in monocrome. Hope that really is good enough a result for high quality printing (it has taken so much less of time)--Piupianissimo 08:212, 11 August 2009 (CET)

Schubert: 38 Waltzes, Ländler and Ecossaises, D.145 (Op.18)

Dear Piupianissimo, Are you sure that Eduard Beninger is the actual editor here? The plate number, U.E. 33, indicates that his work was first issued shortly after U.E.'s founding in 1901 - when Beninger was 3-4 years old. Perhaps the Eduard Beninger you found dates for was the son of the one who edited this score ca.1901. On the other hand, UE could be pulling a trick here similar to what Peters and Breitkopf have been doing - reprinting an older edition and inserting a new editor's claim of editorship on it. Let me know ASAP. Thanks, Carolus 05:06, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Dear Carolus, it seems like it is really a "new revision" (just the pedalling, perhaps) from 1927/1928. I found it with a slightly different cover than I have here (no date on my cover but the U.E.33). And the Motivation of the edition I uploaded shows the year of 1927 --Piupianissimo 18:24, 24 August 2009 (CET)

Beautiful

Keep on scanning - you scans are marvellous. --Peter _talk 13:21, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Hi Peter, thank you very much!!! I still have so many old scores, that I can keep on scanning for years. And until now it's still fun for me (especially when I get such feedback). 22:22, 1 September 2009 (CET)

Song, Wer nie sein Brot mit Tränen ass, S.297 (Liszt, Franz)

Lieber Piupianissimo,

ich war vorhin kurz davor, die Seite zu verschieben - die korrekte (alte und neue!) Schreibung ist natürlich die mit -ß-. In beiden Liedtexten erscheint auch -aß-, seltsamerweise weicht nur die Überschrift des älteren Beitrags davon ab. Mir geht es hierbei weniger um orthographische Finessen, sondern vielmehr um Rücksicht auf die englischsprachigen Benutzer (wenn du verstehst, was ich meine...). Grüße von Christoph --Ralph Theo Misch 11:17, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Brahms Low Voice Songs

Hi! I hope you are able to complete the project of scanning the Brahms songs for low voice. I'm trying to finish up the uploads of the high voice edition from Variations Project. I've been wanting to see the low voice editions available for some time. Keep it up!--Hansenkd 13:56, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Do you only have access to Vol. 1 of the Peters Brahms low voice songs?--Hansenkd 23:42, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Hi Hansenkd, yes your right, I have to disappoint you. Vol. 1 is the only one I own. I've scanned and uploaded the whole volume now and hope that you can still be pleased!--Piupianissimo 18:44, 29 October 2009 (CET)

Well, I have access to the other three low-voice volumes and can scan them at some point (I'm doing a project completing the Breitkopf & Härtel Sämtliche Werke right now). The scans won't be as high-quality as yours, of course, and I don't have the capability of making the files display like yours do with the smaller "framed" pages. But perhaps if I started scanning the other three volumes and emailed you the files, you could work on them and merge them into your segments on the respective work pages, following the example of the high-voice editions? (I don't know how to merge files into an already existing segment.) Anyway, I'm currently finishing up the import of the high-voice editions from Variations, and of course, there will also be the Dover reprint of the "Sämtliche Werke" edition (original keys, mostly high, but not all). Having the low-key editions would be very valuable because the most available recordings of the songs (Fischer-Dieskau) typically use the low-key version. Let me know what you'd be able to do with the scans as far as merging them into your sections, making them uniform, etc., if I were to scan them and send them to you.--Hansenkd 19:40, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

When you can scan them in 600dpi monocrome (that's what I did with Vol. 1) and take care that there is not too much noise or dust pixels and the scans are not skew, I would really like to clean them and put them into pdf files. Perhaps we can try it with a single song first, to have a look at the results. Hope to hear from you soon.--Piupianissimo 20:58, 29 October 2009 (CET)

I can scan them in 600dpi monochrome directly to pdf, and I can combine them into one pdf file, but as you can see, I don't have the clean-up capabilities or ability to have them in that smaller "frame" window that you do. I'll make sure to have a clean surface and press hard enough, and I'm pretty good at avoiding skew. Let me know what dimensions you'd like them (length and width), and I can match that as well as my scanning software will allow me. Then if you can make them look nicer and merge them into your headings for each opus number under the low voice editions (below the high voice editions from Variations), that would be terrific! I can give you edition and plate numbers, etc. Incidentally, you only have plate number for volume 1. The edition number is 3201c (the "b" was for a "middle voice" edition that only existed for vols. 1-2 I think--I'd like to get my hands on that as well). Let's try this. It will be a few days, as I'm in Colorado and we're snowed in right now (I need to get up to the music library to get the scores.) I MIGHT be able to do a couple of songs tomorrow. Let's see. We'll keep in touch.--Hansenkd 20:27, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Great, I'm looking forward to the first scans. I made the others in 4282 x 6252 pixels size, so if you can meet this whould be nice. BWT great library you have, hope the weather gets better.--Piupianissimo 21:46, 29 October 2009 (CET)

OK. You'll have to give me your email address so that I can attach the files (can't do that with IMSLP email link).--Hansenkd 21:32, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

4282x6246 is the closest I can get. I'm starting with Op. 6 because I noticed you included front matter with Op. 3, No. 1 and didn't know if I should include the front matter to volume 3 (where the rest of Op. 3 is located) with Op. 3, No. 2. Anyway, let me know and I'll go back to Op. 3. I'll wait for your email to get your address (just send to me via IMSLP email) and then will send you one or two songs from Op. 6.--Hansenkd 01:47, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

6 Lieder, Op.85 (Brahms, Johannes)

Hallo, Piupianissimo,

beim Stöbern ist mir aufgefallen, dass das Vorschaubild von Nr.6 dasjenige von Nr.3 angibt. Deine Scans sind in der Tat konkurrenzlos. Deine Einschätzung des zeitlichen Aufwandes zur Erzielung guter Scans kann ich übrigens unterschreiben. Oft benötige ich sogar mehr Zeit für eine Seite - ohne allerdings zu solch hervorragenden Ergebnissen zu gelangen wie du. Aber dank Photoline bin ich dir dicht auf den Fersen ;-) Der Aufwand lohnt sich! Herzliche Grüße von --Ralph Theo Misch 01:21, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Lieber Ralph The Misch,

ja das ist richtig, ich habe immer nur EIN Vorschaubild für alle Lieder genommen (vielleicht ein bischen Faulheit).

Du bist mir aber nicht nur "auf den Fersen", ich finde alle Deine scans sehr gut und freue mich, dass Du einiges von Reger gescannt hast. Schön, wenn ich meine Erfahrungen weiter geben kann. Das war immer meine Idee. Ich finde es schade, dass viele Noten (die meisten) hier "nur" zusammengesammelt sind und leider sehr oft schlechte Qualität haben. Sicherlich kann man sie ausdrucken und auch irgendwie davon spielen. Aber das ist so wie vor 30 Jahren der Fotokopierer. Schöner ist doch, wenn man die Noten in so guter Qualität erhalten kann, dass sie auch in Jahren noch genausogut reproduziert werden können wie die Originale.

Dein Einsatz von Photoline bei Regers An die Hoffnung hat ein sehr gutes Ergebnis gebracht (wer hat da 8 gewertet - ich hab das mit einer 10 ein bischen "korrigiert"). Lediglich die Titelseite sieht etwas zu fett in den Linien aus - vielleicht ein Spiel mit den Filterparametern.

Ich freu mich darauf wieder von Dir zu hören, liebe Grüße --Piupianissimo 19:37, 5 November 2009 (CET)

Lieber Piupianissimo, vielen Dank für Deine Antwort und Deinen Zuspruch! Und natürlich für Deine "Gegenstimme" bei AN DIE HOFFNUNG! In der Tat war ich etwas ratlos, als ich die 8 entdeckte (obwohl es ja wirklich keine schlechte Wertung ist). Das, was dem Notenbild bei der Verwendung von Photoline dienlich ist, gereicht Grafikelementen zuweilen zum Nachteil: Wenn ich den Filter aktiviere, werden Noten samt Linien nachträglich "aufgepumpt" - sensationell! Aber Titelbilder nehmen bei diesem Verfahren unverhältnismäßig viel zu. Ich habe die Software bestellt und werde einfach verschiedene Einstellungen ausprobieren müssen. Besonders die Bearbeitung und Reparatur farbiger Titelseiten beschert mir noch manche Mühe. Ich würde mich sehr freuen, wenn ich Dich zuweilen um Rat befragen dürfte.
Für die nächsten anderthalb Wochen werde ich - was das Scannen angeht - leider etwas kürzer treten müssen. Danach geht es hoffentlich munter weiter. Es gibt noch so viel, das es zu archivieren gilt!
Liebe Grüße! --Ralph Theo Misch 00:41, 7 November 2009 (UTC)