User talk:Cypressdome/archive1



Nice job with these uploads...filling in some gaps...-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 02:46, 4 July 2010 (UTC)


Hi Cypressdome, and thanks for all the uploads! What I've concluded from the engraving style, plate numbers, and the site is that these are not in fact from 1876, but mostly date from the early 1850s. (You can see a full, searchable listing for Raff here.) Apparently, Schuberth reissued this series over a few decades starting in about 1848. Cheers, KGill talk email 01:24, 6 July 2010 (UTC)


Nice work on the Etherbert Nevin works list. I can scratch that one off my list now; woohoo!

George Frederick Bristow

Good job with your list of compositions for George Frederick Bristow. The effort is much appreciated, BKhon 03:46, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback. It's still a work in progress but I was ready to get it out of Notepad, Cypressdome 20:31, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Your Uploads

....are quite popular it would appear. The Kullak edition of the Chopin Op.28 is number one in the download count, approaching 2000 since the counter went up on 1 October. Carolus 05:27, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Chopin, etc.

Hi again,

The Kullak edition you've kindly uploaded appears to have been a licensed reprint by Schirmer of the one issued by Schlesinger from 1880-1885, with Kullak's text translated into English by Parsons. That's why they had the S. #### plate numbers, which was not a pattern used by Schirmer, which was also not up to the 7000s back in the early 1880s. I've been having to dig into some of the various Chopin editions because of all the items worov has been uploading lately. Schirmer almost never printed something without a date as they were well aware of the fatal effect that had under US law, so I put the date of your recent Czerny upload in parens instead of using the "n.d." schema (which indicates that the item was printed with no date originally). Thanks for all the fantastic work you're doing! Carolus 03:01, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Church Plate numbers

Hi, It appears that the little suffix which appears after the plate number refers to the number of music plates in the particular work. Normally, we disregard those since we already have a page count. It's probably OK to leave the Church listing as it is, since it's not too extensive and there doesn't seem to be anything that would be necessarily confusing about having them there. Perhaps a note to explain the suffixes should be added. As always, nice additions! BTW, Carl Fischer frequently does the same thing. Ditson, on the other hand, uses a system of dashes to separate blocks of numbers in the Musicians Library series which have nothing to do with number of pages. Carolus 06:08, 27 December 2010 (UTC)


Hi Cypressdome! Just to let you know that S.G. Pratt has been moved to the full form of his name in accordance with our composer naming guidelines. Cheers, KGill talk email 01:57, 4 January 2011 (UTC)


Hi Cypressdome,

Since you seem to be the Gilchrist person here, I was wondering if you were planning on including the Schliefer catalog number on all pieces? If so, it might be a good idea to follow the conventions we've been using with other composer catalogs and employ an abbreviation instead of the full cataloger's name. I'm not sure what exactly is the preferred form for using the Schliefer listings, but perhaps it's something like "Sch." "SL" or simply "S." (though the last one is probably used elsewhere). You might want to check with p.davydov, KGill, or Massenetique about this as all three are extremely knowledgeable about library-issues of this nature (and much else). BTW, we actually have a few cypress domes up here near where I live (close to St. Louis), which is about as far north as they go in the USA. I even have a few Bald Cypresses in my yard - they had really nice sepia color this past fall. Regards, Carolus 04:02, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Carolus. I'll definitely check with them as there are at least 25 more of his works to upload.--Cypressdome 05:55, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

Looks like Schliefer is it, at least for the time being! Carolus 05:26, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

The Laurel Song Book


First issued in 1901. Many subsequent reissues/editions in the years following (1902, 1904, 1908, 1909, 1912, 1918, 1921, etc.). There appear to have been slight changes from issue to issue as the page counts vary a bit in the WorldCat records - though this could be a result of simple errors in library listings. I'm guessing that the 1921 issue was the 5th edition, but don't know for sure. Apparently very popular and a big hit for Birchard, which was only founded in 1901. Carolus 04:44, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Only just learned about it while reading Greene's book on Henry Holden Huss. Two of his more important songs were published in it so I went looking and the 1921 is apparently the only one that's been scanned. There's still over 50 songs I could post but quite a few will require determining librettist dates, new composer info, whether or not a work was part of a larger set, and whether or not it was published with an opus. I'll follow your formatting from this point forward. Thanks. --Cypressdome 04:57, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

JPG2000 re-sampling

Impressive work! I am really amazed you were able to make those files look so good in monochrome. Carolus 04:21, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. I greatly benefited from the great job done by the photographer (you could see his Canon lens cap sticking out from under the book) and the well-preserved bound copy of Lamia the NYPL had. There seems to be many more MS/NYPL scores on to keep me busy. --Cypressdome 04:45, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

I assume you know about using the little "HTTP" link found on those pages - you can download zips of JPEG (and other) files which do not have the infernal Microsoft logos on every page. Carolus 04:50, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Yes. It seems hard to believe MS would be so generous. I don't know how you go about finding scores on but since MS has over 400,000 items out there I've found that using a search parameter of sponsor:(MSN) AND publisher:(Schmidt), or whatever music publisher you want, works wonders. Just thought I'd pass that along. --Cypressdome 05:03, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

I've done similar searches. They've got all 20 volumes of the Farrenc series Tresor des pianistes which I will download the color PDFs for (no logos on those). There are quite a few scores on Your processing (as with Lamia) makes it very easy for anyone with a laser printer. Some of the color scans and grayscale JPG2000s can cause printers to crash, despite lookiing great at screen resolution. Carolus 05:28, 16 January 2011 (UTC)


I'll have a look soon, many thanks! Eric 12:39, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Trying out Hathihelper30 in an effort to download a large file (Spohr symphony 9, many pages) but running immediately into a "ImportError: No module named request" error from Python 2.6 ... Eric 05:18, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks- I'll try to upgrade. They have Spohr syms 7 and 9 (among quite a few other works it would be so very nice to host. I'd have gone my usual merry way just cropping the images since I'm stubborn ;) and that was working even with the near-thing Tovey clarinet sonata, but the 2nd page of score of the Spohr 9th symphony presents more than a near thing, one loses the whole bass line unless one uses something like Hathihelper. Turns out that even Hathitrust recommends Hathihelper, which is - interesting. So... will try to upgrade Python, whether through FINK or more painfully directly :), v.soon. Thanks again Eric 12:23, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Python3 produces an interesting error here - "NameError: name 'WindowsError' is not defined" :) Eric 13:12, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

That's not exactly a helpful error message they've provided. I just downloaded the Windows installer for Python 3.2 and HathiHelper worked fine for me under it. I guess if you upgraded an existing install of an earlier version of Python the next step would be to try installing Python 3.1 or 3.2 to another directory, run HathiHelper from there, and see what happens. --Cypressdome 14:42, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

I don't think I was given a choice of directory in which to install it. Also... I'm on a Mac and install it using FINK. I can try to install it more directly/manually, though with somewhat less chance of success :) Python3 -V says I have version 3.1.3 now, b.t.w. Eric 15:54, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

I'm afraid I'll be of no help when it comes to Mac issues. The Windows installer for Python (msi extension) gives you the option of directories and I now have three versions of Python existing side-by-side on my system each apparently able to run without interference from the other. Is Fink (or some third-party application) required in order to install a Mac application that has a Mac installer (dmg extension) which Python makes available? --Cypressdome 17:16, 5 March 2011 (UTC)


Hi Cypressdome. You are currently in consideration to become an IMSLP administrator. Being asked to join the moderation team is a sign that you are considered to have the responsibility, good judgement, and dedication to gain and use a set of extra privileges (page and file deletion, blocking other users, and so forth). Would you consent to being promoted? Thanks, KGill talk email 20:06, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

I responded over yonder.
Congratulations, Cypressdome. You are now an official IMSLP admin. Welcome - and thanks for accepting. Regards, Carolus 04:51, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

Vox Organi

Thanks for a fantastic job in acquiring this series. Carolus 04:46, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. Only 11 more items to post and that will conclude volumes 1, 3, and 4. I'm tempted to see if I can get volume 2 through interlibrary loan to scan it myself but I don't know if its rarity will prevent that from happening.--Cypressdome 04:50, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

I've always wondered why 2 is so rarely encountered. The other three are pretty easy to find as a general rule. Carolus 05:11, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

A Biographical Dictionary of Musicians

Nice find! Lndlewis10 21:45, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. Your posting of the Grove motivated me to action. I've added the Grove 1920 American Supplement which now gives us a nice complete set to offer.--Cypressdome 00:25, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the uploads for Grove! I would really like to see more of that nature on IMSLP. I think I'm going to start targeting musicological works / references for my uploads ;) Cheers, Lndlewis10 02:03, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

The Wikisource people have been working hard on transcribing some of them from scan to text I notice, too, includ. Denkmaler, Grove, and others, if I remember - we all seem to agree they're important enough for preservation alright (the more mirrors the merrier). and there's stuff in the early Groves that hasn't made it into the later ones that's very interesting, like a piano reduction of a fragmentary C major Mendelssohn symphony (whose main theme, I believe, found its way into one of the concert overtures), so it's not as though someone with a copy of Grove 7 will learn nothing of any interest at all from the earlier editions... :D Eric 12:29, 1 March 2011 (UTC)


I've been approaching the project in a rather less systematic way (and really, really should have been noting that I also usually crop- and often deskew- their pages, using in my case one or both of the Mac programs Preview or iPhoto (the latter for attitude adjusting which I don't know how to do with Preview)) as well as changing size and filetype, etc. ...) It's posed some interesting problems so far - as when the "Raff" scores at LoC turned out to be by both Joachim Raff and one of his brothers, also named Joseph (but not Joseph Joachim. While his brother J. Kaspar Raff is not I think especially inspired, in the interests of preservation it might be good to have a category for him and duplicate the materials of his at LoC here, sooner or later- might work on that soon, even,since we have, I think, exact dates which is not always the case). (This was worked out by consultation with the head of the site and some fans at the forum.) Fortunately too, the librarians at the LoC, like those I've contacted at Sibley Library, have been accessible and have done their best to answer my conundrums and solve scanning and identification issues - etc. ... (My admiration for librarians as profession increases from an initially extremely high baseline...) Anyhow, taking too long to say that I hope I have not been running over your feet with my attempts to do things in that area of the project and whatnot, etc., as would rather not do so of course! erm. Sorry about babbling, and thank you again for your help. If Hathihelper is proving somewhat in? under-tractable for me --- I've gotten used to that with UNIX-related things by now- and some of them, with help, work out eventually. Patience and effort are I guess the bywords :) Eric 16:26, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

If you can get HathiHelper to work for you it is a great resource. It allowed me to get two volumes of Richard Wagner's Prose Works that I couldn't find as pdf files anywhere and create two pdf files totaling over 800 pages in just a matter of minutes. As for scores from the LOC my main focus is trying to work my way through some of the under-represented American Romantics and need to finish the work I started on Christoph Bach, Bristow, Gleason, Gilchrist, Bruno Oscar Klein, J.O. von Prochaźka, S.G. Pratt, and Wilson Smith (as well as finishing the available scores in Kullak's Chopin edition). Dudley Buck and William Vincent Wallace (ok, not he's not an American but spent a bit of time here) are in my queue and already downloaded to my hard drive. I have to finish cleaning up Chadwick's The Viking's Last Voyage which is requiring many notes to be re-painted and we should have all of his works that the LOC currently offers (well, with the exception of one selection from Tabasco). Don't worry about stepping on my feet as there are plenty more musical scores out there that need to be added to IMSLP. I think adding the scores of J.K. Raff in would be a good idea if for no other reason than to be able to document that they aren't by J.J. Raff. Did you ever hear back from the LOC regarding the Authorities records on those two? --Cypressdome 17:56, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

I don't think I did, no... nor do I see an entry in for him yet (I guess no real reason why at the moment, I should go find that area of their site though and see if they've cleared -that- up though). As to setting up a category for Kaspar, the arguments weren't mine, so I may want to check with those who thought them up first just to be clear in my own mind there... :) :) (it's a neat forum I guess, as we seem most recently to have worked out a tentative worklist for Robert Hermann (1869-1912) without much effort ;) at least up to opus 13, anyway.) Eric 20:49, 17 March 2011 (UTC)


sounds like an excellent notion to me. Eric 03:46, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Marx R.K.

sure- actually, the work is already on the server in some form, I just have to create the page and link to it - though I don't know where that copy was scanned from, a field I always prefer to be able to fill in :). I'll upload the one you've given me the link to when I get back from work in a bit - thanks! Oh- and yes, I can at least try to load them, I'm learning as I go along myself... Eric 17:50, 17 March 2011 (UTC) (by the way as to question 1, the one already on the server is also UE 6017 - 2pf arrangement that is - though divided into 3 movements. :) actually, the orchestral version was composed after 1922 apparently, so - only the 2pf version is PD-US anyway, re the Marx pf conc. according to Hyperion Records...) one last thing about that - according to the author of the MPH preface, the full score was published in 1921.-Eric


ah, very good resource to have. Thank you. Combined with Hofmeister, Worldcat and a few other things we have I think filled out and double-confirmed opp.1-13 (and an op.2a "Variations pour rire" for vn and pf (the Petites variations pour rire that Pazdirek also mentions; U Basel gives it opus 2a) or something at U. Basel) for good measure. One or two anomalies and no guarantee there isn't an opus 14 hanging out that I don't know how to find, but... Eric 01:06, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Yon concerto

did you find a copy of the finale that wasn't missing page 51 (reduction page number, not PDF page number)? Ah good. The copy I downloaded had that page almost blank, didn't want to upload that finale really (or, say, an overture at Google that has 6 pages completely missing though otherwise is in better shape... leave alone the Fétis symphonies there which have many pages quite unreadable :( but I digress. ) Eric 04:23, 22 March 2011 (UTC) - hrm, wonder why page 51 is present in their image zip but absent in their pdf... should have checked there, I guess, except I could never seem to get the files in their compressed image packages to open- well, the time or two I tried. hrm. thanks!

JPEG2000 files seem to be very tempermental. I don't think you can easily convert a jpeg2000 file into Adobe Acrobat format so I went ahead and converted them to black and white tif files and then to a pdf. It also gave me a chance to test out batch processing in Photoshop that I really need to learn more about. As for unreadable symphonies, I had started to clean up Raff's 3d from Hathi Trust but either the printing or scan was so bad I had to give up. --Cypressdome 04:56, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Hrm. On the one hand, of course they do usually appear as alternatives on this site... hrm... but that's because a denser file may be more accurate and more readable, I believe, anyway- neither of which are true in this case- if anything, the PDFs I uploaded give a heart attack because of individual file size. I say go ahead. Re Raff 3, if you can process just one of the five movements, it's worth PDFing and uploading just that one so that there's a page, I also say?- I don't know the work as well as it merits (I have heard most of the other Raff symphonies much more often, and quite a few other works- oddly this most famous one is not in my collection yet...) (Liszt praises it in a letter to his then-or-ex-mistress(?) Agnes Klindworth, quoted in a book I did upload under Lipsius (Liszt und die Frauen), and the work deserves Liszt-praise, I do know)... in my honest opinion (and I may give that a go now too that I know a little more about how to use my image programs to edit besides just cropping :) :) ). Anyhow! Sorry. And thanks much! Eric 22:14, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

thank you!-

wasn’t aware of it. hope the author’s estate released it into the public domain but not going to raise a huge fuss personally myself of course. very useful information there... Eric 05:12, 28 March 2011 (UTC) helps suggest some PD-US works I hadn't thought of looking for (@hathitrust, Sibley, etc.- not a bad use for such a resource). :)

Der fall Raff :)

Have now created Category:Raff, Joseph Kaspar - thanks for your help with the biography and obituary some while back! Eric 15:57, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

That's awesome and by complete coincidence I'm about to post his brother's 3rd symphony in Google/UM's very mediocre scan. I'm also going to dump a work list for Kaspar on his talk page as these are works found in the LOC's Music for the Nation collection where they really don't differentiate between the two Raffs. --Cypressdome 20:55, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Ah, thanks for the list- was aware of maybe three J.Kaspar Raff works on their site with op. numbers. (Wonder who else has his works scanned in? Some other libraries do have them, often attributed to his brother of course, not the only time this sort of thing happens but then...) has a quite good online catalog and a downloadable more complete one that may help with that. For instance "twilight" "op.209" is (actually) by Joachim Raff, excerpts from his Der Tageszeiten of the same opus number (printed on the score, helpfully...)- I believe - and should check as I think I have a recording!!!- lazy me. - that they are all or part of the choral parts to the 2nd and 4th movements of the work, in English translations, so I cleaned them up and uploaded them so. Wiki being wiki I hope someone will correct me if not- again, was being a bit lazy. Thank you re the 3rd symphony, again even though I don't know that work anywhere near as I do believe it deserves, I am very glad to see the gap filled. Eric 21:28, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Latest processed scans

Your quality is getting to be amazingly good on these. Most impressive. Carolus 03:46, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks! I've benefited greatly from the creators of Hathihelper and Scan Tailor.--Cypressdome 04:00, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Google books ref sources

increasingly we've been uploading some of the more often-used ones from google and archive to pages onsite - this seems a good idea, and a good idea to replace the links from Google to internal links as well, for the more often-used ref. ones over time and gradually (there are a lot of them after all) (Baker's is the most often used, along with early Grove, I think...) Daunting prospect though and I will start on it- erm- er- well... not this moment :) but I will... thanks! Eric 05:23, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Google Books vs. vs. IMSLP

good points raised. sleepy. but as far as I know yes indeed, for reasons I have only partially figured out, Google books has a copyright policy that is too restrictive by half - I think - in the US - and unpredictable in its exceptions besides!!! - and which is ... ridiculous beyond US shores. or so I gather. Eric 05:03, 9 April 2011 (UTC)


There's a big Forberg catalog in PDFs at Landesbibliothek Coburg- I don't know if, taken together, it would exceed in content the PDF we already have, or be worth the trouble- if so, I think I'll try putting it together as one or several larger PDFs and contact you in a few days if I do so about how to upload it to be associated with the Music Publishers page etc. :)... Eric 21:18, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Alas I think you have it right- that would explain other things on that page rather well. Sigh. Thanks! Eric 01:04, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

sorry about that

could have found 10 better ways to do that. anyhow. thanks very much for everything and cheers! Eric 02:26, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

I believe brackets means estimated, parentheses means not-there-but-calculated-on-reasonable (if not always 100%) evidence (e.g. HMB, dépot légal, ...) While a reason I knew of to omit n.d. in this case was if a piece was one of a larger group the title page of which, say, might have the copyright in question (whether or not it was a question of the scan omitting it was another matter), that makes sense too - I apologize for my tone and my venue, that does explain it... I think- if it needs further sorting out in future when I label things myself, it'll be sorted out :) Thanks! Eric 03:01, 15 April 2011 (UTC)


about getting pub. information from Worldcat (or more specifically, from the member libraries, since the Worldcat people have no access to the scores and just reflect the member libraries' catalog records) I have had for some time some belief - more and more of it - that certain libraries and their catalogs are excessively liberal about putting "©" in their catalog record copies (I mean to say, putting it there when they do not in fact see a copyright on the page in front of them or have other proof- like a listing in the Library of Congress copyright "magazine" scanned at Google books , or dépot légal, ... - that the work was copyrighted that year and that the copy they have is the same edition, plate, etc. as that copyrighted. My reason is mostly in the form of 'too many plates -way- out of order in plate tables' that are accounted for by Worldcat evidence and often have round-number copyright dates (though not always, e.g. the one I'm "looking" at now, Poldini studies on a Schubert impromptu which I'm guessing was probably not copyrighted in '97)...

then again, had a conversation about this with some librarians at LoC and Free Library of Ph. and they did point out that copyright date, plate-implied date and release date (the last being what Hofmeister tracks, of course) will not all three always even be close together, works sometimes being withheld for one reason or another - have to think about that one... anyway, your opinion welcome as ever, and any caution applies to myself at least as much as to anyone else. Cheers and best! Eric 01:56, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

got it-

interesting fellow, our Mr. Klaren/Klaric... anyhow, will get on it :) Eric 04:28, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Though as I've half-noticed before, LinkLib doesn't even seem to notice when the librettist is a non-pd-ca character. it's an odd thing, like an automatic nonautotag tag. oh well. Eric 04:36, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Chopin Op.25

Thanks for fixing that. It must have been very late when I uploaded it to the wrong page! Sheeesh! Carolus 05:07, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

there's also at least one

work by Strube (big piece) digitized online - shall you or shall I ? hereathereat :) Eric 03:23, 22 April 2011 (UTC) thank you. I do have a brief list (I tend to compile such things ;) ) of things on my main (user) page from HathiTrust that look worth doing- should I just transfer them here for your perusal and consideration/prioritizing/rejection-as-appropriate?... I am rather good at processing some things but perhaps less so with theirs :)... and some of the things on my list are big :) (vocal scores of big operas, like Smyth's the Wreckers...) -Eric

List of links&c. so far :)

ok, here's my list so far :) (shorn of the PD-US-only items, I think.) - sorry to dump it on you, understanding obviously that it's a sort-at-leisure-and-will, a list of suggestions...

I'll probably keep adding to my original and proc. some myself of course... -Eric

  • Tadeusz Iarecki (Jarecki?) (1889-1955). String Quartet in F minor op21, Cobbett prize-winning quartet from 1918, I believe. (Michigan/Google scan, 39pp) (not yet- still to do.) - Done! (also, there's another Hathitrust link to the Jarecki that I think has the parts, too, here - perhaps one of us should tackle that - erm - part of it at some point :D - I'll give it and/or Smith op46's parted version a go sometime soon I think...).
Alas, the Jarecki is the same link - no parts.-Cypressdome
Ah, I really need to check these things... I'm more sure about some of the others. Hope the "category" scores and parts that it belongs to will reveal something, will check it out anycase. found some neat things meanwhile in LoC and NLA (yay acronyms- sorry :) ) - at least, I thought they were. Is Worldcat semi-broken for you? It may just be my Mac and Google Chrome acting up, I should test it with another browser and will do so- it won't do several things I'm used to it doing, and it's not the only site that won't, either... :( I was encouraged to upload some zither works because practically every 19th century issue of HMB has a substantial section of works written for or arranged for Zither and we had practically nothing in either category - maybe we had 2 workpages total compared to- hrm - maybe 360 zither works in those issues of HMB :) at very minimum (abbreviated by "Z." so hard to search for using rhul) Eric 03:43, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
  • Graener quartet on a Swedish folksong op.33 (pub.1910) (28 pages) Graener (California Google) (still to do.) - Done!
  • Friedrich Klose's (wikipedia link- Category still to be created here, I think) (1862-1942) Quartett für 2 Violinen, Viola, Violoncello : ein Tribut in vier Raten entrichtet an seine Gestrengen den deutschen Schulmeister in E major, pub.1911. (California Google) (72 pages) (still to do) - Done! (neat!!! - Eric. apparently it was recorded on LP in the 1960s... I'll have to see if I can find that. Zurich Tonhalle Qt. Looks inventive.)
  • Børresen's string quartet op.20 (pub.1914) (53 pages) (still to do...) - Sadly, the copy is missing entire pages and sections of pages. - note: going to see if there's a movement of this intact and upload that, at least, for now :)- Eric (also, I did give feedback to Hathitrust on one of their other items which was missing a few pages, a work by Köhler. They have again been good so far about checking to see if the problem is "on their end" and then seeing if they can rescan etc. though not sure if the problem is fixed yet on that particular one. I should report the Børresen issue tho'. :) Cheers! Been finding a lot of these template links no longer working for me meanwhile- distressing. ...)

- hrm. this is what happened with the Dohnanyi quartet 1, too- Hathitrust looked at the problem after I sent in a 'ticket', first told me it was probably unfixable, then figured out how to fix it. so may be worth one of us reporting it to them? :)-Eric

Hathi Trust has corrected the Børresen and the full score has been uploaded.-Cypressdome

you’ll hear no complaint from me on that sco... erm.. .unintentional pun. Thanks! - Eric

  • Pfitzner's Piano trio opus 8, too. (still to do) - Done!
  • note the link HathiTrust for online - mostly but I think not entirely Google - scans. Very searchable.
  • J.D. Kümin. a Missa Dixit Maria is at LoC. who this? (this I think is what I meant when I wrote this.)
  • Ernő Dohnányi's string quartet no.1, op.7 (ca.1903) (note re Dohnányi quartet 1: I was going to try to process this myself, but a large part was missing, I found- and yes, was too lazy to try to go to library and get their copy... I submitted a "ticket" to Hathitrust a month ago (" first system (bars 152? to 161) missing almost entirely in first movement allegro of Dohnanyi quartet opus 7 score. thanks for having a look"), they replied - today, could be much much worse- it's fixed now or so they say. used to have a recording of that quartet :), good piece. Thanks re Jarecki, Graener, Chadwick! eeps, at this rate you'll run through this list very quickly... - Dohnanyi was fixed and is now posted!
  • George Whitefield Chadwick's Sinfonietta in D major (copyright 1906) - Done!
  • Ethel Smyth's opera The Wreckers, complete vocal score (1916, 277 p. via U Michigan libraries.)
  • Rutland Boughton - two works: birth of Arthur, from Sibley (which only has libretto, but it is at here) (if I can find out death date of librettist, since fl. may not be sufficient -though this may have been the last work Reginald R. (Ramsden) Buckley wrote, in 1914, poss. revised 1926, poss. just republished then); also The Immortal Hour, vocal score to his most famous work. - Immortal Hour - Done!
  • also see here; Rheinberger opera Poor Henry (vocal score), oh, also his duo op.15 for 2 pianos, arr. for piano 4-hands by Alois Reckendorf , etc. - Op.15 done! Op.37 done!
  • Georg Schumann’s oratorio Ruth, Op.50 published by Leuckart, v.s., plate FECL 6249, in about 1908 (link.) also by Georg Schumann at HT:
  • Totenklage : aus Schillers Braut von Messina, Op.33 (©1903), Leuckart, vocal score, FECL 5648. Totenklage - Done! Also, Ruth is done!
  • English adaptation of G. Schumann’s Ruth (given opus number 20?) at Ruth_Chapman - Copy above also has words in English so skipping this version - Cypressdome.
  • The first (1898, Hainauer) edition of 6 Poems after Heine, Op.31, by Edward MacDowell (at this link) - Done!
  • This interesting-seeming book about Anton Rubinstein by Zabel (they have two copies scanned in, another from U Michigan, this one from NYPL)- actually, has this one...

have been checking out "SBB" in Germany which contains some very interesting scans meanwhile - and thank you indeed for taking those up!! Eric 02:57, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Not a problem. Think I'll try Chadwick's Sinfonietta next. I scanned through SBB and saw one work that I considered for conversion to B&W - Albert Deitrich's opera Robin Hood in full score but at 577 pages that would seem to be a daunting task! --Cypressdome 03:21, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

also, SBB's MB/page ratio, while not nearly as high as their PDF download creator claims, is still quite massively high (though one can still do things like download only each individual part of a string quartet at a time, for instance, to keep that under control...) - wish they'd forego the color high-background files and go the Sibley route, despite the admitted advantages of the former. (e.g. for uploading the Schuster mass in G and the as yet not entirely uploaded Reichel piano trio, I used a feature on the left side which allows you to download a section of the work rather than all 100-odd or 500-odd pages at a time - in the case of the mass, the Kyrie, the Gloria, etc., -then- select the PDF tool and download and process... making sure one has the link to the whole thing handy so that one can return and download the next bit. or just back-arrow, but I prefer not to do that sometimes, unintended consequences on some sites. I suspect and will check that with the several operas they have that for most of them they at least allow one to download an act- or even maybe each scene - at a time...)- later-on-and-maybe-unnecessary-edit. still amounts to 500 pages in the end though of course I keep remembering that the pages for some of the Dvorak symphonies was just a couple of the wind parts or something like that for months on end- don't have to upload the whole opera at once of course, either :D. I really should get around to processing the finale of Lachner's 6th suite, there's another Google thing I downloaded but haven't done yet (dauntingly large but I think manageable, just have to get around to it. will try to after I attempt to typeset at least a complete movement or two of this quartet - assuming it has more than one movement.) Eric 16:30, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

They do have some really good and rare works by well and little-known composers- and i was wondering if I'd finally see something by Raff's pupil Urspruch digitized, they have something of his too :) have had to do some hopefully not too quality-destroying procedures to reduce the size of SBB files much more manageably... that said, if they'll let you download operas - of which they have a few interesting looking ones, including one by Ferdinand Ries?... - act by act (by positioning the 'current' inside the act then clicking the pdf button) it may be worth doing I think anyway... a similar problem with eg their Czerny 2nd quartet for 4 pianos op816(?) which also seems to have a huge download size, though with some cleverness that might be made more manageable. Eric 03:31, 24 April 2011 (UTC) (all the more a pity since they have -lots- of Czerny we don't have yet, similarly with some other composers we may want to fill some gaps in ;) - anyway, I downloaded his opp 260 and 523 from their site and will process the pdfs soon for size reduction. right now I should probably upload a little more of Schneider's flute concerto 4/oboe concerto and sleep- or the other way around... thanks again!

Two (three?) more suggestions if I may :) :

  • Emanuel Moór's 2nd piano sonata op.103 - will check HMB to be more sure but they say ca.1910. - Done! Does have copyright notice for 1910 on the score.
  • Eugène Cools's flute sonata op.64 - also about 1910 - more substantial even at just 20 pages than the slow movement that may or may not be from his c minor symphony that is all that represents him right now (oh, I forgot the violin sonata. ok, it'll increase his representation from 1-and-a-hint items to 2-and-a-hint. that's better, anyway and at least sometimes worth doing. :) ) (also, re opus 64 - definitely from 1909. Will still check around re opus 77's publication date - as with Rivier's double bass piece I may be able to process the piano part (though again as with Rivier's double bass piece I may have some trouble with the solo part- haven't looked yet though, just guessing this time. anyhow if it isn't in HMB it might well have a dépot légal...) - Done!

There's also by Cools the rather briefer (7pp score, 3pp part)

  • Sicilienne opus 77 for flute and piano (ca.1910- hrm- both of them? doesn't seem quite right, opus 64 and 77? I'll try to check that later :) Could be, of course.) Thanks very much again, appreciate all this :) Eric 12:38, 30 April 2011 (UTC) (Re Cools dating - HMB notes his "Hop-frog, poème symphonique" op.63 (reduced) in a 1909 issue that I've been looking through nerdily anyway... - so I can credit op.64 being written around 1910. Op.77 they'd have to convince me. I'll go look for it later though :) )
Done! Page 7 of score apparently has a publication date of 1909 listed opposite the printers name unless that's meant to be a date of composition. The catalog page included with Op.64 doesn't list Op.74, 75, and 77 which are listed on the catalog page included with Op.77 which would seem to suggest a later publication date. --Cypressdome 04:40, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

--and one other thing (stop, Eric.) I thought I'd finished this so I didn't mention it, but I only managed to 'de-iconize' the first two movements of the serenade op36 by Vítězslav Novák when I uploaded them to Serenade in D major. Congrats on the Mendelssohn, it's great to have even one of those works here! (and I hear we may have some of the string symphonies uploaded at some point too...) Eric 01:15, 1 May 2011 (UTC) - Done!

Thanks for the additions to the list above. I'll definitely take a look at the Novák. I'm working on the Klose quartet now. Thanks for correcting the key for Mendelssohn's concerto. You'd think after living with it for two days I'd have noticed that. Thanks! --Cypressdome 03:51, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

Happens to me truly all the time- and I know I'm going to have to ask for a lot of advice on at least one and probably a few of my projects soon precisely because I'm in a sense too close to them. :) (Some mundane, interpretative things at least mostly!) Eric 04:06, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

another suggestion :) (sorry!) - JK Paine's The Tempest, Op.31 (I think- doesn't have opus number, does on our side of things? pub.1907.) Eric 02:25, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

I'll always jump at the opportunity to add more music from the American Romantics. This might be a good sign that Hathi Trust is still actively adding scores as I know that I've looked through all the Paine they had but don't recall seeing The Tempest. Too bad HT doesn't have a means to sort by date added. I'll try to get it posted over the next few days. Keep the suggestions coming! --Cypressdome 03:52, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Happy to of course and thanks! I thought they had an RSS electronically-available-only feed but it turned out not to be as advertised :) (I keep looking for such things, to find newly uploaded scans- and not so newly... ever since I discovered the ability to do so; another, well, toy that I enjoy very much, I admit. Several sites have them. Keep reminding myself to see if I can find something even vaguely like it anywhere on LoC- would fascinate me. Still, U Mich does have a new acquisitions RSS, which is still a good thing in itself. As to one of their other main sources, the U Cal. system, not sure i saw anything of the kind there. Or on the hathitrust site, though I may have just forgotten... hrm. Because that while not a sort by date added sort of relates.) (LoC keeps surprising and turning up things I was sure weren't there before - making me wonder if maybe they still are scanning at the American Memory Project, a question I do want to email and ask them- I should do that. E.g. the Schumann op.118 first edition, a Joseffy edition of a piece by Friedrich Gernsheim (well, I knew some Gernsheim was performed in the US in the 19th century (The Boston symphony orchestra: an historical sketch lists 3 works performed of Gernsheim performed by the Boston Symphony between 1897 and 1911. The same book gives Paine's The Tempest as being given by the Boston Sym. on March 9 1883, not sure what the 3 means - maybe twice after that?) (here.) If you upload that work and can't find earlier performances that might go under First Performance, perhaps with a question mark... :) Cheers and thanks again! Eric 15:07, 15 June 2011 (UTC) (oh, the list of composers and works in that appendix may prove interesting?)

The Tempest has been added! Thanks for tracking down that date. I couldn't find anything earlier so it will serve as the first performance. --Cypressdome 03:58, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

confirming non-pd works

may have a few over at the local uni library- they have the 1954 study score of the Barber op15 though not the earlier edition... d (well, that helps fill in spots in a plate table too, for its purposes) also probably a good number of the others. - just have to write down what I want to find for the various plate tables for next I'm there. or a partial list- i'm there rarely enough as is, for all the long list of searches and listens and ... ... I like to and try to remember to do when I am there (dork? me? yes) Eric 03:44, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

I'm afraid my ability to confirm those non-PD-US/non-linked scores in the Schirmer table would be limited to whatever Worldcat or online university library catalogs would have. Those not being the best/always most reliable sources I figured I'd leave the issue to other editors either now or in the future. Thanks, --Cypressdome 02:15, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

oof, good point.

they also have some scores that are only PD-US for lack of copyright, I think (Max Butting's quartet no.4, an interesting-seeming work composed and published sometime around 1927 I think- I'm somewhat interested in Butting but not much of his pre-1923 output is available, I have looked at a symphony - he wrote about 10 or so- and quartet by interlibrary loan awhile back- around 2000?- though.) though by HathiTrust internal rules such scores aren't allowed, ironically :(- rather overrestrictive understanding of copyright law. the Napravnik score is a copyrightless score whose parts first appeared 40 years before, unless the datestamp the library added count.. hrm and hrm again... well, had some qualms about uploading that but did so. am working slowly on typesetting a huge manuscript Italian quartet from 1856-79 now :) may take awhile, about 60 pages in all, hopefully several mvts so can subdivide... Eric 03:21, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Mendelssohn - Concerto for 2 Pianos in A major

Excellent research! You just proved PD status in Canada. Carolus 00:32, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, but I really can't take credit for that. Karl-Heinz Köhler mentions the performance in his preface. By the way could you take a look at Concerto for 2 Pianos in E major, MWV O 5 (Mendelssohn, Felix). It's been tagged as C*/C*/V* but it was also publicly performed in the 1820s and is a 1960 urtext edition. I thought from the previous discussion that it would turn out to be public domain everywhere. Thanks! --Cypressdome 00:40, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

The C tag for Canada is due to the fact that Köhler died only in 1997. There is no specific mention of urtext editions in Canada's law (in contrast to the EU). The legal opinions we sought took the view that such editions are not protectable at all under Canada's law as they lack sufficient original content to qualify as an 'adaptation.' There hasn't been any court case directly addressing the issue either, hence the C. The star next to the tag indicates that this qualifies as an urtext edition under the laws where such editions are mentioned (EU), or that it lacks sufficient original material (Canada and US), or fails to qualify for GATT restoration as such (US). Carolus 00:48, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

I see. Thanks again! --Cypressdome 00:50, 1 May 2011 (UTC)


Considering how often we editors use Hofmeisters Monatsberichte to establish date of likely first or near-first publication, considering too that one of its predecessors for the late 1820s is on Google Books for some of its volumes (Whistlings Handbuch der musikalischen Literatur vol1, 1828; vol2 1829 is here though by then we also have HMB too...), this might be a good candidate for upload too? (as are some of HMB's post-1900 issues, which is good for those who don't want to plough through the scans at - uploading the ones at google.books to here would be good. or even if we could, uploading the ones up to 1922 from onb to here by way of making sure there's an extra copy... I assume that's legitimate, and it seems a good idea to not keep-eggs-in-1-basket-erm-anyway. Eric 16:52, 4 May 2011 (UTC) Maybe some issues of AMZ (Allegemeine Musikalische Zeitung, Breitkopf's in house publication I think... and so a rather good reference for the first publication date of early B&H plates...) and/or similar magazines which had a major presence at the turn of and throughout the 19th century and are also well-represented at Google books and contains things like reviews, lists of publications of earlier decades- though there may be some issues here with Google having obtained proprietary rights we don't know about in some cases somehow maybe, I don't know.. doubt it though... Eric 16:52, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

I'm all for it! I had input links to some of these at Google Books and Hathi Trust over on the IMSLP:Other music score websites page. I had downloaded the three volumes of Whistling's Handbuch der Musikalischen Literatur from BSB and had converted the 1829 Supplement to a b/w pdf and posted on but never got around to posting it here. The BSB copies are 3 times the resolution as the Google versions. They're also grayscale and over 160mb in size so they would have to be converted. I can easily enough strip the Google logos out to post their versions. Also something to consider would be copies of Hofmeister's Jahresverzeichnis and Handbuch der Musikalischen Literatur in which I've found a couple of items not documented in the Monatsbericht. Hathi Trust has quite a number of these. Under what "composer" would these get posted? Whistling is ok for his 3 volumes but would we use Friedrich Hofmeister for all his volumes from 1829 to the 1940s? Certainly AMZ and also Pazdírek would be appropriate to add here (in my opinion). So, are we to begin a Whistling-Hofmeister Project? --Cypressdome 21:49, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Ok, I have to think about that one. Tempting, really. Eric 13:36, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

I've uploaded Whistling's 1829 supplement. I compared the Google pdf files to those from BSB for the 1828 book and it really seems hard to believe that Google scanned the same source as BSB. Lots of their pages are badly off center (some dropping at least one character) and I noticed some lines of text were curved. It appears that converting the BSB pdf will be the better option quality-wise. Both BSB and Google split it into 2 volumes but it appears that it was published as a single 1158 page book. Will have to figure out how best to divide that. Needless to say this book might take a little while to convert. --Cypressdome 04:17, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

this being a project, anything I can do? right now I'm just working on LoC things like piano pieces by Bial for the moment... (then going back to typesetting) otherwise I mean... Eric 18:34, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

Let's see where we stand on source material for the three types of publications from Whistling/Hofmeister starting with the hardest.
  • Monatsbericht: Hathi Trust only has 8 volumes of this from the 1890s. I'm not sure what Google Books has that hasn't been transferred to Hathi. The obvious main source is the Austrian National Library. The problem is figuring out how to batch download the images. I was looking over their site earlier and on each page you view you are given several bars at the top that control the size of the image you are viewing. The left-most bar links you to a b/w tif file to download-exactly what we need. Unfortunately, the link is like this: The true location of the file stays hidden behind the code. I tried a couple of different downloaders but all of those seem to want a url to an actual location. If you have a solution that would be great! If not, I'll post a query over in the forums. Someone must be able to figure this out. If we can batch download the tifs then it's just a matter of creating the pdfs - no editing really needed!
  • Jahresverzeichnis: Hathi Trust has volumes covering the years 1858-1863, 1877-1888, and 1890-1908. In addition to the three gaps we are missing 1852-8. Google's scans of the earliest Handbuch volumes don't appear on Hathi Trust so I wonder if any volumes of the Jahresverzeichnis are hiding in Google Books. I haven't had any luck finding them. Hathi Helper can download all the files. Hopefully, they'll mostly be b/w tifs but any grayscale images can be easily converted.
  • Handbuch: BSB provides us with the 1828 edition (the processing of this will be somewhat delayed as I think I will set up another computer to handle it otherwise my main pc will be tied up for days) and the 1829 supplement. From Google I've got 2 of the 3 volumes (missing vocal music volume - can you find it on Google?) of the 1844-5 edition and the 1852 (complete in one volume). Except for one or two pages they appear to be 600dpi b/w so I'll try to post them tonight. With the exceptions of the 1868 and 1893 volumes Hathi Trust gives us all the rest up to 1918.
One issue I'm having problems with is deciding under what person items should get posted. The Jahresverzeichnis has no connection with Whistling so it goes under Hofmeister. The Handbuch was compiled by Whistling (but in some cases published by others) up through the 1829 supplement but if you look at the 1844-5 issue its title is C.F. Whistling's Handbuch der Musikalischen Literatur edited by Adolf Hofmeister. This to me suggests a case like Grove's Dictionary of Music and Musicians and Baker's Biographical Dictionary in which we've posted it under the originator even though latter volumes were edited by others. What's your opinion? The Monatsbericht appears similar in that Whistling produced it for a year and a half before Hofmeister took it over entirely. However, I'm wondering that since it is so identified with Hofmeister and he and his descendants produced it under their name for the next 100+ years that it would be best to post it under Hofmeister. Tell me what you think.--Cypressdome 02:31, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

hrm. under Hofmeister with an explanation of their mutual contributions perhaps... will think more about it though and look for the other material, since I agree readily that some things can be awfully hard to find without a remarkably thin set of search-tweezers- or some such expression since that seems not quite apt. Eric 02:56, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

Had a busy though pleasant weekend and have been winding down from it (excuses excuses)- thank you for all that regarding the Whistling etc though, a great service! Will see soon if I can locate any missing pieces you mentioned... Eric 04:19, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks! I'm in the process of uploading the only Jahresverzeichnis/Verzeichnis that I was able to find in Google Books: 1882, 1899, 1904, 1907, 1908. The other computer has just started processing 670 pages for the 1861, 62, and 63 Annuals. Going to take some time! --Cypressdome 04:26, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Pfitzner violin sonata

I don't really know the work (may not have heard it at all yet though I've seen the score at the non-virtual library ;) - only a few recordings, some from quite awhiles back like the one on VAI?, some very new, i think), but first read about it (and many other composers and pieces) in William Newman's long out of print (but much borrowed from libraries and much rererereread by me, awhile back) book on the Sonata since Beethoven - anyhow, roundabout said, even though I haven't heard it- still, great idea I say :) (hey, if it's anything like the violin concerto, or...) Eric 12:45, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

I was surprised to see I had a recording of it. It seems to be an attractive, lyrical piece that could have been composed 25 years earlier. Not too memorable upon a first hearing but certainly a work I will enjoy listening to again. --Cypressdome 04:24, 6 May 2011 (UTC)


thanks- have downloaded them, will process them soon!! much appreciated- Eric 04:40, 10 May 2011 (UTC)


I found a work apparently by Gilchrist (published as by W.W. Gilchrist in 1897 by Presser), "Southern Lullaby", downloadable online. Before I post it, do you by any chance have its Schleifer # ? Thanks :) Eric 02:06, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Schleifer 419, via Droid thanks to cut phone line. :( --Cypressdome 04:16, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Sympathies and thanks, will upload very soon! Eric 14:15, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Frédéric Chopin: Complete Works for the Piano

Hi, I was wondering if we should add the Friedheim volumes to this page. The Schirmer version of Mikuli's edition is listed on a single page along with the original Kistner issue. Since both Joseffy and Friedheim were issued by Schirmer and not by anyone else. I thought it might be more advantageous to have them both listed on a single edition page instead of creating a separate one for Friedheiim. I think the two series were both titled as "Complete Works for the Piano" and were issued at about the same time (just to make it all the more confusing for us). Carolus 02:13, 19 May 2011 (UTC)


thanks, I gave up on converting that one :) Eric 16:27, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

You're very welcome. Just posted his Lady Radnor's Suite. Hathi Trust has his Symphonic Fantasia 1912 but it's a miniature score which I don't think will convert very well. By the way I haven't forgotten the list above just gotten somewhat sidetracked. --Cypressdome 03:04, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

I wasn't worried, more - erm - what is the expression? ... boggled?... (in the most positive and appreciative of senses.) with or without a certain amount of help from processing software, that's been fast... Eric 03:25, 26 May 2011 (UTC)


ah. those three seem to have had an interesting history between their connections? with flutes and guitars as well as sheet music. thanks for setting up the pub page(s) - will also do some linking soon... :) (lots and lots and lots of pages to link, I think- really should have done that myself, one of those good-reason-to-create-one-of-these sorts of things. cheers! ) Eric 04:02, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Hopefully, I'll be adding William Hall & Son and William A. Pond & Co. over the next couple of days. Lots of Firth/Hall/Pond scores on LOC as you no doubt know. --Cypressdome 04:13, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Indeed- I've uploaded one or two (maybe even scanned one in myself, i forget), so I know that having a centralized resource when there are so many is a good thing. good idea for some of us to sometime find some of the publishers we keep uploading many scores published by but thinking maybe we'll do something about... later! (the Sydney Smith archive and some others have definitely increased our proportion of scores by a few London publishers and also our ability to estimate well the date-plate correspondences there using, I think, information from British music periodicals where advertisements for the scores appeared soon after publication. Ashton & Parry I think is one. not a big publisher, but one we now have more representation of. One that turns up in HMB a -lot- - not sure how many we have of theirs yet, though a few at least - is Rozsavölgyi. & c. Also Challier, Carisch & Jänischen... :) Cheers ! having fun with scores by Anthony Heinrich, one of the much more idiosyncratic of the composers represented at LoC. Had heard a work of his on the radio - a programmatic piece, not a kind that usually interests me i think - but there's a lot of other sorts of things and a website that's creating a sort of Heinrich Edition with newly-edited works, orchestral works, etc. ... interesting... Eric 05:13, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

"by Charles Grube [sic]"

Charles H. Grube may well have been a different composer- those items in fact could probably be removed from the list. He may have been either Carl Heinrich Grube, a German organist (who perhaps spent some time in the US?) or someone else? His name is on Vassar's rolls as an instructor for the late 1880s/early 1890s, apparently (if it's the same person) and does show up on (well, not a lot, but more than I first thought, counting ones that LoC ascribed to Grobe) of scores- they might all be by Grobe after all, maybe wanting to diversify his publishers some (though one of them seems to have been published for the first time I think in 1880- after Grobe died?) and- well, it's a discussable case. Might end up merging Charles H. Grube into Charles Grobe if I'm mistaken, of course. Eric 00:41, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

It does seem really odd to have two people with the same first name and middle initial and with such unusually similar last names composing piano pieces at the same time in the US but I believe you are right that they aren't the same person. Looking at Grobe's list of compositions in 1848-9 his publishers were in Baltimore and Philadelphia while Grube's works appeared by Hall in NY. When Lee & Walker published works by Grobe they usually listed him on the cover as "Chas. Grobe" but on Shells of the Ocean they list "Charles Grube". It's a minor difference but seems to be consistent and how can you accidentally put in a 1/2" tall letter u instead of an o and not notice it and then compound the error on the first page of the score as well unless you're using a phony name and trying to cash in by having people confuse him (Grube) for a more in-demand composer/arranger (Grobe)? Lee & Walker had lost Grobe to Ditson during 1856. --Cypressdome 01:49, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Hrm. Actually, the (dozen at most?) Charles Grube works I've found so far except for the one 1880 exception (could be a reprint? need to check) are all 1856 or before... but some are during 1856 (like Natalie, etc.) - hrm. the Vassar associate might be Carl Heinrich Grube (even though Musicsack has him in Germany for part of that time, I am going to guess that those dates are approximate, though sometimes they aren't and at least sometimes when Musicsack's maintainer says active x-y place, he's checked those beginning and end dates :) ) Eric 02:04, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

There's also a Fritz Grube whose compositions are mentioned in a 1916 HMB, and this link about the etymology of the surname Grob/Grobe which proves nothing whatsoever but which answered a question this made me curious about :) Eric 16:30, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Hofmeister Monatsbericht links

Since you and Schissel have been doing an absolutely amazing job of linking hundreds of titles providing us with dates of publication, I was wondering if you would find it advantageous to have a template available for this purpose - sort of like the ones we presently use for links to SLUB/Dresden? A template also has the advantage of being a 'plainlink' in style, without the funny little arrow at the end. I think the ONB's link-naming convention appears to be pretty consistent, so it should be possible to create a functional template without too much agony. Reply over at my page, if you please. Carolus 05:34, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

Brahms, Op.34b

The Brahms-Institut page indicates the score actually was first issued in December 1871, even though Hofmeister didn't list it until early the next year. Just wanted you to know since you've been so thorough about linking to Hofmeister. About the only thing that trumps them for a German issue of this era is a formal works catalogue like the McCorkle (which is where Brahms-Institut got their info). Carolus 03:03, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Morgan template

I think I've fixed it now. Let me know.... Carolus 04:05, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Hurrah! --Cypressdome 04:09, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

FL Ritter

erf, I knew I'd forgotten something, and I'd just seen that link right in front of me, too. Won't be able to get back to contributing to it until this evening either... Eric 17:01, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Ok, got most of that now, I think. Thanks! Eric 05:20, 29 June 2011 (UTC)


I had been under the impression that of Ysaÿe’s concertos all but one were completely lost... hrm. but websearches/OCLC searches reveal not only the one you found (and the one I already knew about which is probably not the same, the Jacques Ysaÿe-reconstit.-8th concerto for violin and strings from 1894 published in violin-piano form in 1975) but also another manuscript at Juillard - a Ysaye concerto in D minor from 1884, first movement only (this one apparently not online, says "by permission"). How very interesting and contrary to what I "knew" or at least had been told :)- and glad to be mistaken. and going through the Juilliard catalog (which I really should have bookmarked...) reveals more of them... no.3 in D major... e.g. ... my!...well. thank you. and that Juilliard is scanning some of their MS- also a very pleasant surprise- the more, the merrier. I'm hoping a Czech library whose catalog I've scanned enviously will do that... :D and also and very especially, the Dutch Royal Library. Eric 05:20, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Frustratingly, page 26 of the work that is posted with the cover identifying it as a concerto in B minor has one of more corrupt or missing image tiles so that the entire page cannot be retrieved. No point posting it thanks to that. --Cypressdome 02:12, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

New Template

{{JuilliardMSS|BEET/BEET_KREU}} gives you: US-NYj. Carolus 05:20, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

can't speak for Cypressdome but I am really liking the expansion of scanning sites more and more, and templates (not little dogs... stop that, Eric.) too. (Beet pun excised.) Thanks!! Eric 05:23, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Thought I caught notice of a recording of a work by Smith, too...

a Festival Suite opus 21 on a duo-piano recital on Fleur de Son, mentioned on some website- double and triple checking revealed that that couldn't be right (of course), that the opus 21 was by Warren Storey Smith (1885–1971) - that Fleur de Son's page has it right but that at least one of the two pianist's homepages does not. Sent him a polite (or so I intended it to be - hope it was received so) email pointing out the incongruity :) (maybe the WS Smith has been scanned and can be uploaded to ...) Eric 13:08, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the additions. I was hoping that by going "live" with it you'd have something to add. It's amazing how complete the Yale collection is. --Cypressdome 02:07, 4 July 2011 (UTC)


Hi Cypressdome. You may have seen the forum topic about a possible shortage of copyright reviewers this fall (I'm not sure if Carolus is taking his yearly month-long vacation in September, and I will not be able to contribute much starting Sept. 3 and essentially continuing until late December). How serious this will actually be is very much up in the air, but in any case, it would be prudent to increase the number of members on the active team. Would you be interested in taking the new test? Thanks, KGill talk email 01:10, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

And here I thought I was in line to being demoted to the junior admin group! All kidding aside, while (there's a hint where this is going) I'm honored that anyone would think I possessed the mental acuity to be a copyright reviewer glancing through the test provided me the final piece of evidence to convince me that I am nowhere near ready for the job. I realize I lack much of the required knowledge but I also lack the time needed to acquire such knowledge. The several hours per day I'm able to devote to IMSLP comes at the end of a long day of working for The Man and what mental sharpness I may have enjoyed earlier in the day has been dulled by fatigue (as I'm sure Carolus can attest to after he cleans up the Brahms pages I've been on). The most I can offer for now is to post a few scores, edit a few pages, and every so often add a composer work list or publisher page. Furthermore, if I were to devote any more time to IMSLP I would incur the wrath of Mrs. Cypressdome who takes a dim view on my spending so much time "doing my foo-foo music" as she calls it. It does pain me that I'm not able to step up to the plate and help out on the wiki where help is truly needed.
Since we're on the subject would having pdf files of any of the Catalog of Copyright Entries from Hathi Trust be helpful to our CRs? I'm nearing the end of the Whistling/Hofmeister Handbuchs and I don't believe the music volumes from the 1940s and 1950s are available anywhere else online. Thanks, --Cypressdome 02:35, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
I understand and I hope that it doesn't pain you too much - the time one can spend on a volunteer project is limited and I certainly don't hold it against you. I was not aware that the Catalog was on HathiTrust; that would be extremely helpful to us, and it would be wonderful to have it here. Cheers, KGill talk email 14:33, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

CF Kahnt catalog

how does one upload a new catalog (such as the ones for C.F. Kahnt and Ricordi that just appeared as new uploads at Sibley) so that they can be used at the Publishers page? :) Eric 20:55, 15 July 2011 (UTC) (sorry btw- asking because I remembered that you had done so, I think...) thanks for the response- it was converting something to a 'media:...' form that i think i'll have to learn but I think it will not be difficult perhaps not at all... - Eric


that was fast and thanks!!! Eric 04:01, 20 July 2011 (UTC)


I'll see if I can install it either with os 10.6 or - well, I hope to install 10.7 when it comes out this month or this summer at least (it's cheaper that way I gather) - anyhow, hopefully this program will be easier to install for me than the last. and besides HMB and similar (I can think of several somewhat similar resources at Hathi and LoC - those big collections of AMZ issues which have so much useful information for instance?...) - or other things at LoC alone (if this only works for LoC, there's still several tons there!...) - that indeed erm...sorry. briefly, will try soon, yes. (and slightly off the subject, I still really love these resources (e.g. the various scanning libraries doing much to preserve their countries' artistic heritages- which can sound it's true rather like boilerplate but begins to feel meaningful in practice...), apologies for the effusiveness. both for the music, the history the scans touch on- many reasons. Anyway. Thanks again for all the rapid work, will see if I can contribute. (plus one other thing- Chadwick's Sinfonietta was performed- mentioned this, you may have seen, on unsungc - by the same orchestra I believe that did the Raff first cello concerto recently. good signs, that sort of thing... they uploaded the youtube video of that, too. ) Eric 03:44, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks! I did see that about the Chadwick and Raff but have yet to find the time to give them a listen. Soon, hopefully. --Cypressdome 03:52, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

somewhat delayed by decrepit state of my computer keyboard but have installed it and am playing about with it a bit- need to go back and check the hints you provided on my talk page; i like it so far though, indeed think this an excellent idea that may be just what the doctor ordered, not sure yet, have only tried it a couple of times and need to get the hang of it. but for example considering how bad i am at deskewing manually - there are partially physical reasons for that, i do not take it personally - briefly - this is great... Eric 14:55, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

I'll see if I can figure out why, if that's the cause, is changing them back to greyscale. i was indeed extending the selection regions for some of them to include the lc punchholes until the most recent examples but probably won't be doing so in future - will just be stretching the boxes by a little esp. if i see that the chosen selection boxes seem to be cutting off slurs or somesuch... Eric 04:55, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

not sure how to fix the greyscale part and not precisely sure what is causing that. definitely an improvement over my earlier LoC editing but then maybe i should not quote Terry Pratchett on that point... a quote that loses some out of context anyways. no, seriously, while i need to tweak what i'm doing with it, it's definitely faster and better- would not have tackled a 30-page piece - though too large an output size, must reduce dpi next time or something - with such abandon. loc has quite a few largeish - 30 to 70-plus pages - choral works in their collection, i've noticed, a few of which we've transferred so far... Eric 15:29, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Renewal records

Thank you so much for organizing this. The effort is very appreciated by the entire review team. Lndlewis10 02:54, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Lndlewis10! Hopefully it should only take a week or two to get through the 1950s. It was nice to see that the feds had uploaded the complete run from 1964 to 1977. --Cypressdome 03:14, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Mac Preview

I didn't find you critical! Saving image-bundles as PDFs in preview is a little more complicated than that in my experience though- I may be overcomplicating it, mind. I find I have to do the following to convert more than a single image to a PDF containing multiple images (converting one image to a PDF is easy): change to thumbnail or a similar "view" in which the images can be selected; select the images to bundled and converted; go into print selected in the menu; choose "print as pdf". this will tell Preview to pretend it is printing to my printer - pardon redundancy, with the same margins etc., but send the result to a pdf of my choice instead. (There is one other way - given a PDF, one can remove some pages, edit the images some and save the resulting PDF. but if one doesn't start with a PDF but only some disconnected images, the only option I know of is the above. I don't know if one can add images to an existing PDF more easily, in which case there might be a third method that I might want to try that might produce smaller documents by accreting images to a one-image PDF... hrm. I don't have, at this time, Adobe Acrobat Full Version, which would make the entire question Moot. ;) I should look to see if I can get something freeware and similar, actually that I might be able to install on my Mac using FINK... or if GIMP, which i think I already have installed, has this feature already!) Eric 13:42, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Re Imagemagick, I notice that I can install something called GraphicsMagick from material on-computer- that may be similar, I may try that first... thanks! Eric 23:25, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

gm convert etc. seems to work (not up to me to judge the quality of the resulting PDF...) - will upload... Eric 00:44, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Possibly so. Will also look into this... thanks again! Eric 14:06, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Hrm. Graphicsmagick does have a -monochrome convert option for converting an image to b&w - this is probably better than what I have been using, actually (iPhoto’s "black and white" option removes colors but changes a file to a black and white file whose profile is still RGB and with a very low resolution to boot...) Eric 13:25, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

thanks, I'll try that. probably need that for some of the larger-sized ones especially, like one of the folders I recently downloaded... and if it works well as I suspect it will, will just use it mostly anyway :) (this is fun...) Eric 03:35, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

So far, great, and replacing some of the earlier uploads made with GraphicsMagick so as to encourage more downloads (as it does decrease the size by a factor of ten and as you say the quality seems about the same, more or less. As often with these command-line programs especially, I notice many options available for me to learn, which is really a good thing in all... Thanks again, yes, this is working much better than Preview :) Eric 13:49, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

Continuing- re Monatsberichte: hopefully not reinventing the ONB/RHUL wheel in that date territory of course (though there are some pages that ONB didn't scan properly, I know) - worth a go. Haven't been able to properly get Scantailor to work with Hathi objects yet (as against LoC objects) even after TIF conversion but may need to tweak how I'm trying to do it. Will holler :) Eric 03:41, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Still experimenting with Scantailor and trying to work out why some things are this way and some things that that I expected to etc. etc.- likewise Graphicsmagick- though overall I am very happy with both indeed - (especially with the fact that Graphicsmagick, when given swap space to play around in instead of having to compete with 118,253 other applications, is fast as well as good...) Part of the thing :) is, not sure why I can't seem to get Scantailor to do certain things that I do want done in batch-fashion over a range of images, done so. Still, even image by image, works faster than what I used to do... though sometimes produces odd results even so... (I have learned how to use Graphicsmagick to do image conversions, resizings, ... I used to do less efficiently - in time and result - with preview, iPhoto and other programs though. That's good to learn later rather than never, and works well!) Eric 20:10, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Kuss-Walzer, Op.400 (Strauss Jr., Johann)

Hi Cypressdome, thanks for your additions! Do you know an earlier Peters edition than 1929? - I'm not sure if the dating is correct (despite the CR claim by Peters, see here). Thanks! --Ralph Theo Misch 23:14, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Hi Ralph, the searchable Hofmeister listing ends with 1900 and the only Peters item I could find for Op.400 was an arrangement for zither. However, for Op.418 the search leads to two items that you can see here both being collections of arrangements for piano and both appear to be part of larger, on-going series of albums. Hope that helps. I'll have to check through the copies of Hofmeister's Handbuch that I have for the post-1900 period. --Cypressdome 23:27, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Ah - especially the Hofmeister link for Op.418 is interesting. Many thanks! --Ralph Theo Misch 23:34, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

The Peters catalog for 1900 lists the contents for all of those volumes. Op.400 was published in a facilitated arrangement for solo piano in volume 2 (Edition 1474b) of the Strauss Album für die Jugend. Op.418 appeared in volume 3 of that series and in volume 9 (Edition 1881a) of the Strauss-Album series. --Cypressdome 23:57, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks again for your kind research! My goal is to make those pieces available even in the US. --Ralph Theo Misch 00:11, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks to your help, the pieces are now available globally! --Ralph Theo Misch 23:07, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

publisher addresses

I have a score ( at Chant des pèlerins, Op.19, by William Vincent Wallace) that claims to be a 1844 publication by Firth, Hall & Son but which has the addresses 239 Broadway and No.1 Franklin Sq. both... I thought the former was associated more with William Hall, do you know if Firth used it before the 1848 break? If not, I might have to write later reprint on the score, possibly (though odd for William Hall to claim something was still published by Firth- well, ... maybe when just starting out, the familiar-name-doesn't-hurt-sales notion-... ... hrm.) Eric 00:53, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Interesting that the score has both Firth, Hall, & Pond (239 Broadway) and Firth & Hall (1 Franklin Square) on it. The main source I used for Firth/Hall/Pond was Musical Instrument Makers of New York which relied heavily on business directories for address information. The author even states that after appearing in the 1833 directory Firth, Hall, & Pond didn't re-appear until 1843 and during the period from 1843 to 1847 both Firth, Hall, & Pond and Firth & Hall appeared in the directories concurrently. Perhaps the change to Firth, Hall, & Pond in 1832/33 wasn't as all-encompassing as it would seem. Perhaps, Firth & Hall excluded Pond from the whatever business was being conducted at 1 Franklin Square but all three partners shared in the business at 239 Broadway. Who knows? I see that Wallace's Opp.18 and 27 have the same publisher information. It's too bad that during this period Firth/Hall/Pond either didn't use plate numbers or used ones that offer no help with setting up a chronology. There's plenty of room for more research on Firth/Hall/Pond! Thanks, --Cypressdome 02:14, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Chopin-Scholz template

Hi, If you want it to be for the original issue of 1879, you don't even need to bother putting in a date at the end. It will default to "n.d.[1879]" Carolus 02:23, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Do we now officially have the entire publication?-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 01:05, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
Answered over there. --Cypressdome 01:51, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Yay for

periodical scanning, I say belatedly :) Will have to discuss w/ "tagteam" how to tag them... Eric 03:57, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Might have to move them later to a "corporate person" named Kunkel Brothers but I've been waiting for some time to post them. Sadly, those two volumes appear to be all that anyone has in a digital format that I could find. I still need to extract out the music from them and post them separately. --Cypressdome 04:01, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

The magazines I've found the most music in - I'll have to check when I'm more awake to see which of these you've uploaded...- include (e.g. ...) Musical Times, Folio, Ditson's Monthly Musical Record and Review... hrm, those are the three that are coming to mind offhand but there are others... Eric 04:10, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

By the way, did you know LOC has an entire 202-page opera vocal score scanned in in their American Memory Section? ... :) Eric 03:15, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

That's pretty impressive. I think the longest ones I've run across on there were in the 70 to 80 page range. I think they have Dvořák's Stabat Mater which must exceed 100. I sure wish that project had included the 1860s and the last 15 years of the century. So, when can we expect you to post that opera? ;) --Cypressdome 03:23, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

That's about the largest I've usually seen there too, like some of the bigger masses ordinary. I didn't realize it skipped the 1860s (both projects included). Working on it, act 1 (68 pages) downloaded, will return to the page after that file is processed. The composer has a Wikipedia page on En and De and was conductor of the NY Philharmonic after Theodore Thomas left for Chicago Eric 03:28, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

First two acts uploaded, so far, to Der Rattenfänger von Hameln by Adolf Neuendorff :) Act 4 quite brief so... not really so much to go. Eric 14:14, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Chopin Etude op. 25

Hi Cypressdome. Thank you very much for uploading the Chopin Etude op. 25. I have very long to find this piano scores. Nicho 07:06, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Nicho! I'm always glad to contribute. --Cypressdome 00:16, 18 August 2011 (UTC)