User talk:Homerdundas

Free public domain sheet music from IMSLP / Petrucci Music Library

Contents 1 Welcome! 2 My archive 3 CPE Bach 4 Alexander Street Press, University Music Editions, CPE Bach Piano Sonatas, Mozart and more 5 Schubert: Alfonso und Estrella 6 Notes 7 Schubert: Die Zwillingsbruder 8 Bolognani editions 9 Mendelssohn 10 your suggestion 11 Merger 12 Testing 13 Ricordi Torchi Page 14 Haydn 15 Purcell Odes 16 CPE Bach Sonatas 17 Musica Storica links 18 Aguado 19 Victoria 20 Freie Vereinigung 21 Parts Page

Welcome!

Welcome to IMSLP and thank you for your wonderful contributions!

I notice you play flute and oboe - I'm impressed! I play flute (as you know), and my dad used to be an oboe player in an orchestra in Poland before he came to Australia. I remember him saying to me once that it would be very difficult to play both flute and oboe well (something to do with quite different embouchure/ breath techniques/ etc. required.)

I have enough trouble with flute and alto flute - and attempting to play the alto after I have been playing the piccolo is just a disaster for the first few minutes until my mouth adjusts.

I hope you enjoy IMSLP, and gain as much benefit from the site as others surely will from your scores. Aldona 17:13, 2 July 2008 (EDT)

My archive

Click here

I moved it to the better location User talk:Homerdundas/Archive. I hope you don't mind.Snailey _{Yell at me Email me} 19:02, 10 January 2009 (EST)

Thanks... keeps an orderly website. :-)

CPE Bach

Hello, I'll second Snailey's above commendation for the UME items. They're very fine additions indeed - thanks. I'm planning to pose a question on the forum about how we should handle the 100 or so Piano Sonatas (and other works) by this composer. My eyes start to glaze at a long list of Sonatas in A major, etc. As you can see from the link I've added on his composer page, there are 2 catalogues in use, the Wotquenne and the Helm. Wotquenne has some advantages as far as the Piano Sonatas are concerned, since there are several sonatas under a single catalog number (though I think the 50 sonatas he listed under Wq.65 might be a bit over the top). The Helm is a more recent (and probably more comprehensive) catalog, but I wonder about how widespread its use actually is. Your thoughts, of course, would be greatly appreciated. Carolus 00:48, 17 November 2008 (EST)

Alexander Street Press, University Music Editions, CPE Bach Piano Sonatas, Mozart and more

Hello All,

Thanks for your messages. A few comments follow, plus I am in need of a bit of guidance here.

I have access to Alexander Street Press from which I am copying the UME works. Processing these files is 'quick and easy' - so I do a few from time to time, as opposed to my other scanning projects - which are more long term. Anyway, on ASP there are presently 41 CPE Bach piano sonatas, 562 works of Mozart and many, many others.

On the CPE Bach sonatas I posted, you recorded the reprint publisher as being Dover. After researching this, I think rather, that these were scanned from Da Capo Press who reprinted the original 'Trésor des Pianistes' in the 1970s. I will examine the Da Capo editions in the next few weeks to find out if the page numbers match.

If you have a better way of organising the CPE Bach sonatas, I'd be delighted to follow your suggestion. I'm not a pianist and don't have any special knowledge of this corner of the musical world. Did the Farrenc editions include the complete CPE Bach piano sonatas?

The UME Mozart works seem to be all Breitkopf. Is it worth spending my time uploading these? Are these all included in the Neue Mozart-Ausgabe? Is it worth having both?

ASP also has a large number of works listed as being from "Harvard University Press (1950)". However, I have no idea from what source publication they come. Judging from the page numbers, they were scanned from a larger work, perhaps an educational compendium. Examples-

Factus est by Aichinger, Gregor, 1pp

Auf, mein Geist by Albert, Heinrich, 1pp

Passamezzo antico by Ammerbach, Nicolaus, 1pp

Would you be able to guess the source? Might these be PD as well?

One free music site I discovered is [chamber music arranged by Jay Lichtman, Hartford University]. Is Mr. Lichtman's declaration sufficient to include his arrangements in the library? I don't want to bother him about including CC notices in his files, if I don't have to.

Homerdundas

Hi, It's been a busy week so my apologies for taking so long to respond. I noticed that Da Capo had reprinted the CPE Bach works as well, so it's entirely possible that the reprint scanned was by them instead of Dover. It's easy enough to change once we determine for sure which it is. I'll post a question on the forum this weekend about which catalog is best to use. Helms appears to be more comprehensive, but I still see a lot of Wotquenne. Harvard University Press did issue a few publications covering early music in the 1950s. There could be some copyright issues there. I'll look these up in the Heyer book. It is definitely worth uploading the "Alte Mozart Ausgabe" form Breitkopf. Yes, the NMA is much better, but there are a number of volumes of NMA still under copyright even in Germany. As for the brass arrangements, you can upload only those items actually arranged by Lichtmann - there are arrangements by others at the site also. We should include at least the lowest-level CC notice (attribution) on any arrangement. As we've seen from the recent business on the forum, Sheet Music Archive has no problem charging money for even the original works of living composers who've uploaded here. Carolus 14:37, 21 November 2008 (EST)

In my opinion, it is extremely worthwhile to upload the Breitkopf Mozart Ausgabe editions - see Category Talk:Mozart, Wolfgang Amadeus. Also, these have no legal strings attached, and, finally, these editions need to be preserved online. At some point, the originals will be too far degraded to be usable. This will never happen to electronic files - and reprints are doubtful of happening over and over again of the entire set. Plus, the engravings on the breiktopf is prettier :)Snailey _{Yell at meEmail me} 18:51, 21 November 2008 (EST)

Hi, I just stopped by first of all to give a big "thank you" for the tremendous contributions you've been making. It's wonderful to see all of the Mozart and Schubert titles added. Three Cheers! A question: Do you happen to have access to the Alexander Street / UME film of the Glinka complete works? A friend of mine is looking for the 1966 Muzyka score of Ruslan and Ludmilla, so I thought you might be the person to ask. Thanks, Carolus 15:39, 30 December 2008 (EST)

Hmmm... There are about 229 works by Glinka on ASP -- the Ruslan and Lyudmilla is Musyka 1966 edition, editor is Georgii Vasil'evich Kirkor (d.1980), Also, "Microfiche Reprint Edition" Boris Schwarz editor. There is an english table of contents and few other pages that appear to be added probably by the reprint editor. Most of it is the original Russian edition, however (libretto in cyrillic type, etc.). Since Kirkor died 1980 it therefore isn't PD? If it is PD, I will be happy to transfer it to the library. Also, it would be several weeks until I could do this. --Homerdundas 16:57, 30 December 2008 (EST)

Actually, since Kirkor was working as an employee of the state (Muzyka, a government agency), and the edition he prepared (like the entire Glinka edition of 18 volumes, issued 1955-1969) is an urtext-style edition, the edition is not protected in either Russia itself (not that anyone pays attention to copyright there anyway), Canada, the USA, or the EU. Excerpts from the Glinka complete works have been reprinted by Kalmus, Lucks and Alexander Street Press (via their acquisition of University Music Editions). The copyright rules for urtext or critical editions are different than those for the heavily edited type of edition one finds from International, where a 'name' performer has added all sorts of dynamics, slurs, fingerings, and articulations. It gets more complicated when a realization or reconstruction is involved, but the urtext stuff is protected only for a maximum of 30 years from publication (optionally) in the EU. The courts have really addressed critical editions in the USA yet, but decisions like Feist v. Rural and Bridgeman v. Corel have established the doctrine of the "threshold of originality" solidly enough that most legal experts take the view that such editions are generally not subject to copyright protection at all in the USA. However, until there's an actual case, we have to observe the 95-year rule for those issued before 1978 (provided they were published with the required notice and renewed - which is why you see a fair number of Baerenreiter items reprinted by Kalmus), or the life-plus-70 rule for the editor for USA tagging for now. (most of our traffic is from the USA). At any rate, there's no great rush, so I'll be happy to tag them whenever you post them! Carolus 02:06, 31 December 2008 (EST)

Schubert: Alfonso und Estrella

Thank you so much for posting my favorite opera! (and probably all-time favorite piece of music.)

When I saw it there under "Recent Additions" I just about fell off my chair. I have been looking for it everywhere for years and it was one of the few Schubert works I couldn't get hold of in the form of the Kalmus study scores.

Coincidentally, just 2-3 days ago I finally located a copy on AbeBooks (Dover reprint) and ordered it - so now I will have 2 copies!

This is the best early birthday present ever!!

Aldona 03:14, 21 November 2008 (EST) (not Catholic, but born on St Cecilia's day)

As per the forums, I must req1uest that you upload the symphonies. It is unbelievable that we don't have these vaulable scores.Snailey _{Yell at meEmail me} 11:14, 21 November 2008 (EST)

Thank you for Symphony No. 7! Snailey _{Yell at me Email me}

SeuLunga: Many thanks for this Opera! I can hardly believe it's finally here! On the other hand, the score you posted as Symphony n.7 (D.729) is the Great C Major (aka n.9 or n.8), D.936. I have a copy of the manuscript of the D.729 (it's the Unfinished E major), and may upload it, as soon as I have enough time and a scanner :). Also, many thanks for the Mass in A-flat. If you keep on this (Fierabras, Mass in E-flat), you and Aldona will be in my people-I-love-list :D.

Hello SeuLunga, sorry to butt in here, but it's great to see another member of the "Alfonso & Estrella" fan club!

As for your note on the Great C major Symphony - when I saw "Symphony No. 7 (D.729)" on the list of recent additions I thought someone had found the missing "Gmunden-Gastein" symphony. It's really not fair to mess with a Schubertian's mind like that - there is only so often that one can fall off one's chair in a given week. It's not good for my blood pressure. (just kidding).

I am currently working my way through scanning "Die Zwillingsbrudert" and possibly "Die Burgschaft" may be next. (if I can tear myself away from my newly printed score of "Alfonso & Estrella" and my CD player, that is...) Aldona 22:47, 23 November 2008 (EST)

Notes

Historical Anthology of Music ISBN 0-674-39301-5 Davidson, Archibald T. and Apel, Willi 1950, Harvard University Press

L'Arte Musicale in Italia
Denkmäler deutscher Tonkunst
Template:115LiederMusicforschung
Österreichischer Bundesverlag
Mozaika kolędowa (Kowalewski, Jakub) ????

User_talk:Homerdundas/USA-C-renewals-search

Leo_Liepmannssohn

Schubert: Die Zwillingsbruder

I'm about half-way (up to page 46). With these shorter operas (e.g. things with only one act), I have been scanning each musical number (aria, chorus etc) as a separate file. With the longer works, your method probably works better.

Unfortunately I have been a bit slow on the scanning because other things keep getting in the way (work, housework, choir, family stuff, etc) but I will try to finish it in the next day or two. My scanning is very low-tech compared to yours so I promise not to complain if you upload it first. However, I would be happier to finish it and do it myself, thus leaving you more time for the symphonies (which are great - thank you once again) and other stuff.

If you have "Fierrabras", it would be much appreciated if you could upload that. I have a Kalmus copy but I was leaving it to the very last to scan, as every time I look at its 537 pages I turn pale and go back to the shorter works. (not to mention the Kalmus mini-score binding being very scanner-unfriendly with such a thick little book).

Keep up the excellent work! Aldona 01:06, 25 November 2008 (EST)

Sorry, no "Fierrabras". :-(

Can we get Fierrabras (or other work) from schubert-online.at? (SeuLunga)

Bolognani editions

Hi, I seem to recall Mr. Bolognani has forbidden the posting of his items here at IMSLP, preferring folks to visit his own website. Would you mind sending him an e-mail to see if he's OK with it? I'll leave the piece you uploaded untagged until we know one way or another. Thanks, Carolus 02:21, 8 January 2009 (EST) (IMSLP Copyright Admin)

Mendelssohn

Thank you for Antigone. The mendelssohn page will be complete soon...eventually...Snailey _{Yell at me Email me} 11:14, 9 January 2009 (EST)

I hereby abandon my plan to completely upload the Mendelssohn Gesamtausgabe from the BSB, as the UME scans are considerably better! --Peter _talk 13:31, 9 January 2009 (EST)

Plus, the BSB doesn't have it all.Snailey _{Yell at me Email me} 16:13, 9 January 2009 (EST)

Could I put in a request for the full incidental music to Midsummer Night's Dream and the Symphony No.2? Sorry for the begging yet again. :)-- Snailey _{Yell at me Email me} 14:15, 14 March 2009 (EDT)

your suggestion

Hi Homerdundas, thanks for your suggestion. I've posted a reply on the talk page. --Leonard Vertighel 02:40, 20 January 2009 (EST)

Merger

I left a message at the talk of List of Orchestra or Band Pieces with Parts Available. Would you please be so kind as to respond?-- Snailey _{Yell at me Email me} 10:27, 22 February 2009 (EST) comment added --Homerdundas 10:46, 22 February 2009 (EST)

Testing

Category:Oboe orchestral parts
Very nice. I eat my words if this works. Drop Generoso a line if you make one for cello, and the same with ras1 and romanov for violins and winds.-- Snailey _{Yell at me Email me} 11:55, 22 February 2009 (EST) (end)

Ricordi Torchi Page

I really cleaned it up; I hope you don't mind.-- Snailey _{Yell at me Email me} 10:47, 26 February 2009 (EST)

Thanks ... I am sort-of making it up as I go along -- suggestions are *very* welcome. I'm thinking I should link back to the works just like some of the 'complete works' editions. I think it might be a very long page however - so I will experiment with >1 column etcetera...

One factor is that I don't have all the works in the collection. To fill in the holes I will have to find a library with this collection and scan the missing numbers. That would be a long term project.

I also don't have the contents of all the volumes - though I am still searching for them, in Worldcat etc.

Haydn

Hi and thanks so much for all of your contributions! When you're done with all of the italian renaissance music, could you please consider some Haydn, especially the symphonies? He is possibly the only major composer of whom we're missing a great deal of major works. The seasons, the symphonies, the trios, the concerti, and the Operas are important works. For your consideration. Thanks!-- Snailey _{Yell at me Email me} 12:32, 9 March 2009 (EDT)

Symphony #88 ---done ... score and parts

I can see the amount of work you've put into this; one of my favourite of Haydn's. What must the scores have looked like before?! Regards, Philip Legge _{@ © talk} 22:43, 6 April 2009 (EDT)

Had I known in advance, the amount of time it would take, it would have been much better to typeset the whole thing. It's only after I had cleaned the score that I realized that the articulations were completely inconsistent between score and parts. A lot of the time went to checking the parts against the score - where I also found the more serious typos that I listed. After all this - would someone like to typeset this work....... --Homerdundas 07:38, 7 April 2009 (EDT)

Symphony #104 ... string parts posted - the rest in May.

Unfortunately UME doesn't seem have very much Haydn - they have been my main source for the 'standard classical repertoire' I have posted. I do have the Haydn trumpet concerto which I can scan in the next year or so. --Homerdundas 13:08, 9 March 2009 (EDT)

Purcell Odes

Hi Homer,

just to let you know, Purcell wrote a great many odes, often for the same occasion, year after year, so there are about four odes to Saint Cecilia (two in 1683, then another circa 1685, and 1692); Purcell wrote no less than six odes for Queen Mary's birthday from 1689 through to 1694 inclusive. I might move the page to include the Zimmermann catalogue number (karadar.com); would you have any grave objection about a rather longer title page:

Z328, Hail, bright Cecilia! Ode for St. Cecilia's Day 1692 (Purcell, Henry)

I myself have done a complete typeset of one of the Birthday Odes for Queen Mary (Z323, Come ye sons of Art, away; 1694). Regards, Philip Legge _{@ © talk} 07:04, 25 April 2009 (EDT)

Hi Philip, No... I don't have any objection, although the title should be reorganized to:

Hail, bright Cecilia! Ode for St. Cecilia's Day 1692, Z328 (Purcell, Henry)

I had no idea these had catalogue numbers - I guess we should also incorporate a list of works onto Purcell's page. I'll check to see if more of Purcell's St. Cecilia works are available. Of course we might also consult our resident St. Celilia (Aldona, born St. Cecilia's day apparently!) Homer.

CPE Bach Sonatas

CPE Bach

First, I'd like to thank you for your wonderful CPE Bach uploads. I would like to point out that the Sonata in B Major, WQ 59/3, is missing the last page in the first movement. Do you also have access to other sonatas of the "Kenner und Liebhaber" series, for example, the wonderful Sonata in f minor, Wq 57/6, the Fantasy in C, Wg 61/6, and the sonatas 56/2 and 56/4? The Dover edition, book 2, of CPE Bach works has some of these, I believe (except for the Fantasy). It would be great if the Complete "Kenner und Liebhaber" series were in IMSLP; also, there are some other sonatas in the "Tresor des Pianistes" (later put in the Dover edition of CPE Bach) that are great, and could also be placed here. Just suggestions...though I'm sure all those other CPE Bach fans out there would agree whole-heartedly!

Hi - Yes I have more sonatas to upload - I kind of left off in midstream some time back. I was uploading all kinds of sonatas - all titled sonata in B major - sonata in C - sonata in Bflat etc etc. Someone was puzzeling about how exactly they should be organized etc. I can resume uploading them (there are an infinite number of wonderful things to upload) - but do you have any ideas about how to organize them better than they are - also do you have a complete list of CPE Bachs works - that might help with indexing etc. I am not a pianist - so I don't have much special knowlege of this area.

I'll have a look for the sonatas you mention - and do them first.

--Homerdundas 21:18, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Hi Homer, Maybe I can help you with the CPE Bach stuff. I've really been getting into his music, and have complied, for example, a list of all the works in the "Kenner und Liebhaber" series, complete with the date of composition of each individual piece. Here is my list_ (The first date in each group is the date of publication of that particular collection; The "x" simply mark the works I already have)

CPE Bach: Die sechs Sammlungen für Kenner und Liebhaber (Wq numbers)

I 1779		II 1780		III 1781
55/1 Sonata C, 1773	x	56/1 Rondo C 1778	x	57/1 Rondo E 1779	x
55/2, Sonata F, 1758	x	56/2 Sonata G, 1774		57/2 Sonata a, 1774 PDF	x
55/3, Sonata hm 1774	x	56/3 Rondo D 1778	x	57/3 Rondo G 1780	x
55/4 Sonata A, 1765	x	56/4 Sonata F 1780		57/4 Sonata d 1766 PDF	x
55/5 Sonata F, 1772	x	56/5 Rondo a 1778	x	57/5 Rondo F 1779	x
55/6 Sonata G, 1765	x	56/6 Sonata A 1780	x	57/6 Sonata 1763
IV 1783		V 1785		VI 1787
58/1 Rondo A 1782	x	59/1 Sonata e, 1784	x	61/1 Rondo Es 1786 PDF	x
58/2 Sonata G 1781	x	59/2 Rondo G 1779	x	61/2 Sonata D, 1785	x
58/3 Rondo E 1781	x	59/3 Sonata B, 1784 PDF	x?	61/3 Fantasia B 1786	x
58/4 Sonata e 1765	x	59/4 Rondo c, 1784	x	61/4 Rondo d, 1786	x
58/5 Rondo B 1782	x	59/5 Fantasia F, 1782	x	61/5 Sonata e, 1785	x
58/6 Fantasia Es 1782	x	59/6 Fantasia C, 1784	x	61/6 Fantasia C, 1786
58/7 Fantasia A 1782	x

Besides a lot of these sonatas, the second book of the collection printed in the Dover edition also contains some other great works, my favorite being a sonate in E major, whose number is, I believe WQ 65/46 (composed in 1766). Ironically, I already have TWO copies of the DOver edtion, but one is in storage in Spain, and the other in the states, and I am now living in Japan; since I have most of the works in pdf format, I'd like to complete the collection in that format, instead of buying the same edtion again here (which I haven't seen in any stores anyway).

ALSO: There is a GREAT site with a chronological list of CPE Bach's works: [1]

If you'd like any help organizing the works you have, maybe I could help you, if you'd let me know the ones you have. Keep up the great work! dbolton

....Wow, I see my table got all messed up when I put it in the User talk section. Is there some other way to get it to you? (email, for instance?).

Musica Storica links

Hi, and thanks for all the links. However, could you put these under "|Extra Information=" (Create it if necessary) so they're integrated into the template? Thanks.-- Snailey _{Talk to Me Email me} 19:57, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Oh, and how much of Denkmäler Tonkunst does UME have? I finally looked up the contents...wow...-- Snailey _{Talk to Me Email me} 21:17, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Well... hundreds anyway - it's not in a form where I can simply say that x% or x years are available - I'll just keep plugging away for now --Homerdundas 22:34, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Wow, thanks. That's fine, really. They have stuff like Gluck's Orfeo for instance.-- Snailey _{Talk to Me Email me} 22:38, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Aguado

I think Richault must have issued most of his works as sort of a 'series of collected works' starting in the 1830s going into the 1850s, just to judge from the plate numbers. Carolus 04:03, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

BTW, I have taken the liberty of splitting up the so-called Op.11bis and submitting it to the two separate work pages (and updating my new sortable list), just to let you know.--KGill 01:04, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

I just noticed your neat table. I'm still trying to sort out some of these - It's more complex than I first imagined... I hope we are not working at cross purposes. Is it a good idea to split scanned editions? I would guess it's better to just cross reference them, if we didn't do the scanning to begin with (courtesy to the originating library & keeping one printed edition together). --Homerdundas 01:08, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Well, the actual edition doesn't give an opus number (does it? I didn't look too hard)- the only place you saw Op.11bis was on the site where you got the scan. And I think Aguado was one of those composers who got put into a lot of collections. So I guess if, say, Villa-Lobos's Choros 1 got put into a 'Brazilian Guitar Music' edition or something like that that included some of his other works, like selected Preludes and Etudes, would we make that its own separate work page? We'd split it up (at least, from what I've seen here) and mark it as Reprint -- or whatever. So I'm not sure exactly how we would cross reference- could you elaborate? And I was careful to still give credit to the library (I tried to give credit to you, too, but somehow that screwed up and I can't fix the page...weird).
Also, those tables really aren't hard. I just copied the headers/column widths from one of Davydov's and went from there (with a bit of specialization, of course). This is actually the third I've worked on (the others are Ropartz and Villa-Lobos- still way far from being complete, what with 568+ works).
Anyway, maybe in the future I'll consult with someone before messing with their uploads. Especially when they've been here way longer than me. :-)--KGill _{talk email} 01:21, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

I just messed with this page as well: Menuets_et_Valses_(Aguado,_Dionisio). Perhaps the same is in order here... It might be worth a question to Carolus "the boss" some time about splitting files obtained from third parties.--Homerdundas 01:27, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Good idea, I just asked him.--KGill _{talk email} 02:51, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

He's confirmed that it's all right to do this. Have you identified which pieces Nos.7 and 8 are? If not, I'd be happy to. In the meantime, I will split the other parts of the file and upload the correct portions to the respective work pages.--KGill _{talk email} 16:32, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Actually, Nos.7 and 8 do not appear to be part of anything else we have here...--KGill _{talk email} 17:00, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Sorry for forgetting to get back to you for three days. My guess is that the other two are part of Op.5, so I put them there, and the other pages have been deleted (as you can see). KGill _{talk email} 21:27, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Victoria

Thanks! This looks nice. Fixed up the page...a lot. You can use it as a "template" for future use (also see the title to which I moved the page)-- Snailey _{Talk to Me Email me} 02:49, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Nice! - I can't say I'm uploading the complete, complete works edition. There are about 5 works missing from the set. Oh well. I've uploaded 3 works from my directory so far. Only 171 more to go. --Homerdundas 03:06, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Freie Vereinigung

Hey homerdundas,

Thank you very much for submitting all the volumes of the Freie Vereinigung, and making sure they appear to each composer's page.

I am just letting you know that I am currently in the process of splitting the collection into the individual pieces, to make it more accessible to viewers. I will, of course, be referencing back to the original year, month, volume and magazine.

Do you think it would be a good idea to have the volumes in a separate category (perhaps under the Genres somewhere, for solo guitar music), and have the volumes there in a neat list (like, for example, that neat little box containing all of Beethoven's symphonies here - with different colours perhaps), and the Publisher's information in each individual piece's Work Page could link back to that volume, which would still be on IMSLP in that page?

Let me know :) -jujimufu 21:13, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

I used to think that splitting such things was bad, but I've revised my opinion - thank you. I revised my opinion because we can easily have a page 'recollecting' the collection - as a publication page. I have done this with the huge Italian collection L'Arte Musicale in Italia. Perhaps create a little template {{FreieVereinigung|etc|etc}} to make everything easier.

We could possibly just use the list which I created to index them? (Talk:Freie_Vereinigung_zur_Förderung_guter_Guitaremusik_(Various)

The Boije collection also has another such set - Guitarristische Vereinigung - which has a similar 'problem'. (I only got as far as downloading them to my system.) Let me know if you begin on this set to! --Homerdundas 21:25, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Is the Guitarristische Vereinigung the same as the Verlag Gitarrefreund? I have done all of the Verlag Vereinigung (I think), with works from very very similar composers as the Freie Vereinigung, only from the years 1909 to 1917, I think.

Earlier today (before reading your reply) I made this music publishers' page: Freie Vereinigung zur Förderung guter Guitaremusik. I have included your index (but changed it to make it sortable by field, which is very handy to see content by volume/issue, or by composer or piece title), as well as your uploaded files (and a table of contents to make it easier to browse). I am now finishing uploading the individual pieces to each composer's page, so once I finish that I will remove the composer categories from the Freie Vereinigung "composition" (Various).

The other problem I have encountered is when there are two very short compositions in one page. For the moment, I put these aside to edit them later with photoshop or something, and split them in two files, to make things clearer.

I hope all this is alright :) If the Guitaristische Vereinigung is not the same as the Verlag Gitarrefreund, let me know - I am very used to splitting files and renaming them very quickly, and I could do the uploading quite easily (it took me 3 days to split, rename and upload each individual composition of the Freie Vereinigung). The only problem is finding information on some very obscure composers (like J. Franz, Joly, or Bissantz, among others).

Let me know if all this is ok, and feel free to make any changes to the pages as you see fit, of course :) Thanks for your uploads, it's really great to have the volumes up as well, to have everything concentrated, and as a historical element. The index was very useful too, and now that it's sortable it's easier to use! -jujimufu 20:37, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Is the Guitarristische Vereinigung the same as the Verlag Gitarrefreund?

No, I don't beleive so. I guess check the Boije collection and download a few volumes to make sure. (Of course there could be some overlap... )

Everything you're doing looks super!

--Homerdundas 01:57, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

 :P Just doing my bit for IMSLP. I know it's a not-so-very-known publication, but it's nice to have things neatly.

I just downloaded some of the Gitarristische Vereinigung, and it's the one I've done - if you look at the bottom of their publications, they are published by a Verlag Gitarrefreund, in Munich. I may have missed a couple of issues, but I am going to check soon. I've also finished the Freie Vereinigung - there's only one or two things to be done (like, uploading some anonymous pieces and a couple more pieces which have to be split in two and stuff), but other than that it's pretty much there :) And every entry has the plate number, so you can find which volume/issue the composition is coming from, and download the respective volume at the publisher's page. I haven't created a similar page for the Verlag Gitarrefreund - do you think we should? (they're not as clear with plates, and that would also mean we would have to run through all the already-uploaded compositions and fix the publisher's field to link back to the publisher's page) (which would be a PITA).

I have also spoken with Aldona, and as she is also uploading stuff from the Boije and the Danish Royal Library, I think it would be a good idea to create a project page for these two, so we can organise ourselves and avoid redundancies, as well as knowing how much we've finished already.

-jujimufu 09:23, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Parts Page

OK, so this page has gotten HUGE - which is a great thing, showing our massive collection of parts, etc. BUT, the editing and searching is IMPOSSIBLE now. So, we need to reorganize to provide more section headings (which provides for better TOC, easier editing (smaller sections), etc.). There are two routes which it seems would work best:

1. Right now, we have 5 very broad categories: Symphonies, Concerti, Other, Strings, and Band. We could do something similar to the new categorization system (when it eventually happens...) and do meta-genres and the like - of course, tailored to Orchestral music.
   • Advantages:
     • Easy searching for many types of minds.
     • Lots of organization.
     • Tiny Sections.
   • Disadvantages:
     • Sections perhaps too small, not filled
     • Confusing to some
     • Expands page length much further
     • Duplication of effort on categorization.
2. As others have done on "search by instrumentation" pages, we could organize by time period.
   • Advantages:
     • Easy to search.
     • Highly Organized.
     • Doesn't over-expand.
     • Small sections
     • Works with current framework.
   • Disadvantages:
     • Hard to find good names; centuries don't really work.
     • Leaves some problems of current system in place.
     • Perhaps confusing(??)

Of course, we can always do some combination of the two. Thanks-- Snailey _{Talk to Me Email me} 03:37, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Also, systematic application of NoComp seems to be helping the page size. I've taken care of symphonies. If you want to do the rest...-- Snailey _{Talk to Me Email me} 03:56, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

---

Homer's thoughts on this

The main reason to look at this page, is to look for good stuff for an orchestra to play.

1. break out band parts to separate page

2. Categories for this page:
- Symphonies (more or less as it is - but can we compress the long lists? ... eg. Mozart by using a navigator box of some kind?)
- Works with major vocal parts should be broken out into a separate category - not all orchestras have a handy choir and soloists to accompany. (however Beethoven Symphony #9, Mahler symphonies, Holst planets - would become exceptions to that rule - that's ok). So this would basically be oratorios and operas.
- Other orchestral I'm fine with (note that this would include opera overtures - that's ok)
- perhaps - perhaps we might make another break for works expecting continuo - i.e. baroque and early classical - I can't see any other easy division point
- Solos with orchestra I'm fine with (again, can we compress long lists of numbered concerti?)
- works for string orchestra are ok

3. Works for string orchestra with continuo, shouldn't be under string orchestra - as harpsichord or organ would be expected - these should be moved back to other orchestral.

4. Works with just a few parts present (i.e. most parts missing) should not be listed on this page.

I think this page has lasted us for a good while - perhaps these few changes are enough to see us a while longer? Other changes may be more obvious as we progress. Simply shortening the listing would be of great benefit. --Homerdundas 04:38, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

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OK, Great - I take that too mean Plan #1.
My ideas:

• I think that displaying the lists with massive shortcomings is fine, especially as almost all of those are to become complete very soon, with this project (btw, do you want to join??).
• Categories:
  • Symphonies
  • Suites, Symphonic Poems, etc.
  • Overtures, Variations, etc.
  • Choral (can include duplicates)
  • Concerti, soli, etc.
  • Strings
  • Separate Band page, if necessary.

Thanks!-- Snailey _{Talk to Me Email me} 04:43, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

And for compression, we can use Overflow - see examples on my user page, the News archive and the Featured scores archive. It doesn't have to have a border, and can be very small.-- Snailey _{Talk to Me Email me} 04:44, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

NB - The two major Mozart collections have been shortened as such. Check it out.-- Snailey _{Talk to Me Email me} 04:50, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

---

OK, so this is my final suggestion:

• Symphonies
• Concertante (solos)
• Overtures, Symphony Movements, Suites
• Variations, Poems, other
• Choral
• Strings
• you can choose whatever for band.

-- Snailey _{Talk to Me Email me} 19:59, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm waiting for the go-ahead ;)-- Snailey _{Talk to Me Email me} 20:08, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Hi Snailey... (I koncked out last night.... zzzz)

I had a look at the 'overflow' scheme - I have to say I don't like the look of it quite... It doesn't seem obvious or clean to have the scroll bar in 'mid-air' over on the right hand side of the screen - I did a couple of tries with an indent and horizonal line at top and bottom of the scroll area - which improved it a bit (didn't save it) - can we try the [hide] [show] table style like you use on your personal main page?

Perhaps we can just say something like 'All Mozart Symphonies scores and parts [here]'. This would keep it confined a bit better perhaps.

The genre divisions you chose are not completely clear to me. 'Symphony movements' should surely go with Symphonies? Then rather than 'Variations, Peoms, other' - we could logically just use our current title of Other - since that is the last catch-all category.

I'm away again for a few hours (2 reheasals!). will be back later tonight.

--Homerdundas 20:26, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

You seem to have the hang of it - it's pretty simple. How about just using "41 symphonies" as the title? It seems most professional.

I see your point about symphony movements.

• Symphonies and Symphony Movements
• Concertante (solos); Concerti Grossi
• Overtures, Suites, Cycles, Serenades, etc.
• Variations, Poems, Fantasies, other
• Choral
• Strings
• you can choose whatever for band.-- Snailey _{Talk to Me Email me} 03:14, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm busy trying out stuff... try this page... User talk:Homerdundas/TestingParts --Homerdundas 03:18, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

I noticed...again, you seem to have the hang of the tables (all they are are pre-collapsed tables).-- Snailey _{Talk to Me Email me} 03:19, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

How did you see what I was doin' - Sysop privileges?
I guess I like the collapsible tables the best - and I guess we can use them wherever we want to save some space.
I'm still a bit confused by the differences between the two categories:

• Overtures, Suites, Cycles, Serenades, etc.
• Variations, Poems, Fantasies, other

If the second contains 'other' we need not specify 'Variations, Poems...', this category would just collect anything not in the first ones. --Homerdundas 03:44, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

(Quote)How did you see what I was doin' - Sysop privileges?
(Quote)

Try "Recent Changes" or "Page History" ;).

I was trying to differentiate between more formal Suites, etc. and Rhapsodies/Poems/Fantasies. So perhaps

• Overtures, Suites, Variations, Serenades.
• Poems, Fantasies, Rhapsodies, Other

is best.-- Snailey _{Talk to Me Email me} 17:33, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

My meaning was just that all we need is...

• Overtures, Suites, Variations, Serenades.
• Other

--Homerdundas 18:49, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Makes sense. I'll put it in.-- Snailey _{Talk to Me Email me} 21:34, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

DONE.-- Snailey _{Talk to Me Email me} 21:58, 7 November 2009 (UTC)