Template talk:Urtext

berne rule

Doesn't the Berne rule of shorter term apply to all countries that signed it? Hence, Urtext publications out of copyright also in the EU?--Peter talk 04:00, 29 October 2007 (EDT)

Hi Peter, The RoST applies only to signatory countries who've explicitly opted to apply it. In other words, it's optional. In an online conversation about this with Feldmahler, I recall that he mentioned that an attorney he talked to about this issue stated that although Canada does not officially abide by RoST, Section 9 of the Canadian law has the same effect with regard to Urtext editons. I expect that Canada's Section 9 also applies to US works where the author or copyright owner failed to renew 28 years after publication. Grainger, for example, became a US citizen in 1918. He was extremely sloppy about renewing his works, as was his wife Ella after his death. His most famous piece, Licolnshire Posy, was not renewed and fell into the US public domain in 1969. However, I do not advocate posting Grainger on the reconstituted IMSLP unless we have a clear statement from a Canadian IP lawyer that my suspicion about Sect. 9 applying to US works is correct. In perusing the forum, one of the new posters there has brought up the fact that Italy passed an Urtext law in 1997 that limits the term for such works to 20 years. Carolus 13:52, 29 October 2007 (EDT)

I would also suggest first limiting the Canadian RoST to
  1. Only editions/publications (not original works). The only place including original works would matter substantially would be for US composers, but in which case it may be better just to put them on a site in the US instead.
  2. For editions with noted editor (i.e. not government publications such as Muzika and Supraphon), the editor should be in the same nationality as the place of publication, or in a nationality where the work is also public domain (i.e. an Italian editor doing a Barenreiter publication will still be PD as long as it is PD in both Germany and Italy, which would be the case after the new Italian urtext law).
The other interpretation of #2 above is that only the nationality of the author matters (place of publication does not matter), but this is in my understanding rather rare among copyright laws (plus it won't cover many cases anyway), so we may just use a combined Canadian/Berne RoST (both publisher and editor) instead.
However, I will be contacting my retainer regarding this issue, and get his opinion of the matter, before we say anything concrete :) In the meanwhile, I think it is important just to make sure all Urtext/RoST files are tagged, so we can check back on them later. --Feldmahler 14:14, 29 October 2007 (EDT)

Template way-overapplied

We have an understandable selfish desire to see more music available rather than less, but some of the editions to which I have seen the template Urtext attached here (slapped on, I want to say) do not really seem to deserve it, unless my memory is (as it may well be) failing me. (It may well be; I was fairly sure that, if I checked, the Tchaikovsky serenade for strings piano duet reduction as published by Muzyka in their complete edition would provide an excellent example, if only because supposedly the "Tsar's Theme"/Thème russe, was, I gather, not allowed, but I suppose it was, in 1965 anyway :) ).

A definite set of guidelines as to what IMSLP means by urtext might be helpful... (I'm fairly sure I know more or less what I "mean by it", but...!) Eric 07:55, 24 January 2016 (EST)


Also, eg "This ... is ... in its country of origin or a government publication." -- This reads a bit like "Faster to Chicago or by bus", and I'm not entirely sure what's meant... Eric 04:18, 1 March 2017 (CET)