User talk:Ctesibius

Dear Ctesibius, Please do not upload Google scores here unless you have removed all of the logos and metatags that Google inserts. Unfortunately, I had to delete all but one of the Perosi items you uploaded today because Google logos are present. (I fixed that particular item myself.) Please read our guidelines for contributors, especially the parts about Verifying copyright status. Thanks, Carolus 22:04, 9 October 2009 (UTC) (IMSLP Copyright Admin)

Magnificent work with these scans, however. Thanks!-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 21:07, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Hi again. Malipiero is not PD in Canada or the EU until 2024. Unless you have permission from the Copyright Owner, his works aren't postable here. Sorry!-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 15:24, 12 October 2009 (UTC)


Editions published after 1963 with a valid copyright notice.

Dear Ctesibius, There's not much point in posting items of this description here, even though they may well pass muster as an urtext-type edition in the EU (maximum 30-year term) and are likely free in Canada. Due to our proximity to the USA, and the large amount of traffic received from there, we have a block on such items for the forseeable future in order to prevent lawsuits. (See the forums for a discussion of this issue.) Even for editions published between 1923 and 1963, it's a hit-or-miss proposition with respect to the US copyright status. For editions published between 1950 and 1963, you should check the renewal status at the US Copyright Office's online database before posting. The status of items issued between 1923 and 1949 is far more difficult to determine as there are no online renewal records. Confirmation of PD status is usually determined by the presence of the item as a reprint in the catalogues of Kalmus, Dover, Masters, et al. I'll leave the items you posted today in place, but they will be blocked for download until the US courts make a clear and definitive statement about what editions meet the "threshold of originality" to qualify for copyright protection. Carolus 17:07, 13 October 2009 (UTC) (IMSLP Copyright Admin)

Jommelli opera scores

Hi Ctesibius, thanks for the nice uploads of Jommelli operas. Nevertheless I have one suggestion to make: Perhaps it is nicer to have each act as a separate pdf-file. --BoccaccioTalk Email 12:29, 27 October 2009 (UTC)


Hi, You listed Alfred Heuss (1909-1995) as the editor for the Krieger volume published in 1905. This does not seem plausible as the editor would have been 4 when the volume was published. Carolus 04:23, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

 Hi Carolus, you are right. Sorry for the misrake and thanks for fixinf it

Hello! I've noticed you uploading some DDT works and your interest in Dm Tk in Oest. There are special pages for these series - and templates for the publisher information, which would make your life just a little easier... see these pages...


with template {{DeutscherTonkunst|Volume|Year|Plate}}



with template {{DenkmalerTonkunst|Volume|Year|Plate}}

--Homerdundas 16:26, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

(just realized that the second link was your work - :0 - I guess the other page of interest is Österreichischer_Bundesverlag - maybe we should merge them?) --Homerdundas 16:36, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

 Hi Homerdundas, yes you are right we should merge the pages. I created 3 pages
 Das Chorwerk
 Denkmaeler deutscher Tonkunst
 Denkmaeler der Tonkunst in Oesterreich
 for the moment I use them to keep track of what is in IMSLP. I created the pages today, so they are still buggy.
 Any ideas how to organize them. I saw the original template is more descriptive
Hi again Ctesibius! I merged your page for DDT with Denkmäler deutscher Tonkunst under "Uploading"...try to keep all pages merged.-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 17:33, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Page titles

Just a friendly reminder that our format is Piece, Op.#. Thanks-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 17:49, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

And please no space between dot and opus number. The used format is: Piece, Op.45 for example. Also, would you please add the plate number in the publisher information field. Usually you can find it at the bottom of the pages. Thanks and regards, Hobbypianist 18:14, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
thanks for the notes and apologies for the mistakes. For the plate number do you refer to some score in particular Normally I always put them, if present. Thx, Ctesibius

Yep, just make sure to put PLACE: IMPRINT, DATE. PLATE ####-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 13:35, 18 November 2009 (UTC)


Hello Ctesibius, I read the Wiki article on Lorenzo Perosi (about how he wrote thousands of works), which raised some alarm as he appears to have composed multiple settings of the same generic Latin text. While spelling out the exact choral/vocal combination as part of the title offers a possible solution to our title dilemma, my fear is that there will be multiple settings of the same generic text (like Tantum Ergo) for the same exact forces (like SATB chorus and organ) - which leaves us in the same quandry.

I am wondering if the best thing to do in cases like this would be to place all of the settings on the same work-page using the actual formal generic Latin title, using the second level hierarchy (4 equal signs) to designate the different settings with descriptions like tonality and the performing forces spelled out in the score. I did this for the two settings of Beatus Vir, so you can see what it looks like. Needless to say, any thoughts you have about this issue are greatly appreciated. I've also asked P. Davydov, who has a great deal of music library expertise, what his thoughts are on how to handle this issue. Best Wishes, Carolus 04:59, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Hi Carolus, this was my major concern indeed. You are right there are several settings of the same text. At the end I decided to have all on the main composer page to make it clear they are independent pieces. My impression is that if you put multiple pieces under the same work title they could be considered as different version of the same piece. The options I considered are:
  • create an unique work called Melodie Sacre and aggregate all pieces into 10 volumes
  • aggregate per work title like you did
  • unique title with unique index in the collection, f.i. Beatus Vir, (Melodie Sacre II, 2)
  • create an unique title using the original second title (as I finally did)

I discarded the first 'cos the collection is not anymore so popular and people do not know really about it. Th second for the reason exposed above, the third can be a solution, but only for the Melodie Sacre and not for other occasional pieces

Unfortunately there is no an ufficial catalogue of Perosi's works. It was expected last year, but it seems that Arturo Sacchetti is a bit late. When this will be available we can easily solve the problem with Opus number like Beatus Vir, PWV10, etc

Let's see what P. Davydov says. I will wait for his answer before uploading the remaining half of the collection. Ctesibius

Hi Ctesibius. I'd go with Carolus's solution for now (aggregating per work title), but we can review the situation when Sacchetti's catalogue appears. Will that be OK? — P.davydov 08:43, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
Hi. Ok, perfect. I will move on with Carolus' solution. -

Thanks for the help. Ctesibius

Thanks to you both. This is a perfect example of why catalogues like the one being prepared by Arturo Sacchetti are so important. I hope his Herculean labors are finished soon. Carolus 02:54, 22 November 2009 (UTC)


Missed "Romantic" and hit "Renaissance" on two concerti...piano....:)-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 16:06, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Biber violin sonatas

Hi Ctesibius,

as there are two sizeable collections (of 16 and 8 sonatas each) as well as six individual works (four of which are called sonatas) that would go under the catchall of "Violin Sonatas", it isn’t practical to put the two volumes of sonatas on the one page – and indeed, there was already a page for the Mystery Sonatas that you evidently overlooked.

Hence I've moved the newly scanned volume to that page, and I've moved the other volume of sonatas from DTÖ to a more appropriate page title for the collection, 8 Violin Sonatas, 1681. You may want to change the links on your user page as necessary.

Regards, Philip Legge @ © talk 01:02, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

PS many thanks for these uploads from DTÖ, DDT, Das Chorwerk, and elsewhere. In terms of requests for priority attention to scanning items in the collection, might I suggest there would be some interest in DTÖ volume 57, which is Monteverdi’s opera Il Ritorno d'Ulisse in Patria? Also in terms of Biber, while I have uploaded my own typeset of a movement of Missa Salisburgensis à 54 and also the hymn Plaudite tympana à 54, a scan of the full volume DTÖ 20 (where they are incorrectly ascribed to Orazio Benevoli) would be welcome, since I have no intention to typeset the remainder of the mass. PML

Hi Pml, I am very happy to see you share the same passion for Biber, a superb composer. Probably with Schuetz the top of early baroque. Thanks for reorganizing Biber page with the engravings, previews and the important note on Sonata XI. Now it looks nice and really readable. Do you think we should also split pdf and create different items for the score and the parts (i put all in one single file).
Regarding the priorities. I am currently working on DTO 92 and 92 (Fidicinium sacro-profanum and Harmonia artificioso-ariosa). After the xmas break will move on the sacred works included Benevolo.

For Monteverdi I would like to scan the Malipiero edition (Madrigali). DTO57 is a big and large volume it will take a while.

Regards, Ctesibius
Re: Monteverdi and Malipiero, in this forum thread various CR people were of the opinion that any of the Malipiero scores that include a continuo realisation will fall victim of Canada's life + 50 extending protection to Malipiero's editorial work - he died in 1973, making the earliest date for the scores to be hosted in Canada 2024.
It will be nice to see those two instrumental collections in DTÖ 92 and 97 uploaded also, and eventually some more of Biber's choral music. As for DTÖ 25, yes there are still a few problems in the corrected sonata XI (and other sonatas) but that is the main issue covered. I saw one other (smaller) item I wouldn't mind seeing sooner rather than later, and that was Antoine Brumel's Missa pro defunctis (in Das Chorwerk), being the second extant polyphonic requiem to be composed (after Ockeghem's), and the first to include a polyphonic setting of the Dies irae.
Regards, Philip Legge @ © talk 11:02, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
Hi, thanks for the link to the thread (I missed it). I can upload vol 1-4 and probably 5 (need to check). My plan is to upload all Das Chorwerk (at least till vol 90 according with Carolus checks on copyright), so you will have soon Brumel. In the future also my beloved Ockeghem's missae will be available.
Any thoughts about the split of Biber score and parts? DTO 11 (pages 1-91 score; 92-119; 120-124 parts). DTO 25 (pages 1-92 score; 93-125; 126-148; 149-154 parts and addons)
Regards, Ctesibius
I would leave the main score as is (they are already large, and shaving off the pages for parts won't make them that much more manageable) and have the violin parts as a separate batch in a single file. One could do a radical split up of the sonatas to have each individual sonata available as a "selection" with its part bundled, but I think that's overkill (and it won't work neatly with the scordatura parts in the Mystery Sonatas, which often start in the middle of a page). Sonata XI as always is an exception to this rule - I may experiment with altering the images to chop out the redundant parts, and include the new realisation and scordatura part in a separate download. Regards, Philip Legge @ © talk 21:14, 15 December 2009 (UTC)


As a general rule, please abstain from uploading the prefaces from collections like DDT and DTO, as they are frequently copyright in Canada. -- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 16:02, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Ok. is fine for editors died +50 years? -- Ctesibius Talk to Me Email me 16:44, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Yep; just think of them as the "composers" of the preface.-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 19:33, 16 December 2009 (UTC)


Nice pages. In the future, please keep in mind the following:

  1. Add [[Category:Editions|Composer]] to make it more findable by those who search
  2. Link it to the composer page (ask if you need instructions)
  3. Make sure that the title is in the format Composer's Full Name - Complete Works Edition

Nice work! I look forward to your future uploads!
As an aside, how do you scan those volumes, as some are quite, quite thick.-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 03:28, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks Snailey for the advises. I'll keep them in mind. To link composers I used the template LinkComp, but it doesn't work for Josquin and for single names e.g. Various, Anonymous. Any ideas? I would like to create some templates for Chorwek, Palestrina, Josquin, etc (but I do not have any clue how to start). Last is there any way to see the count of download per item (e.g. how many times piece x has been downloaded)? Thx.--Ctesibius Talk to Me Email me 15:20, 12 January 2010 (CET)
for the scan. Simply scanning. Most of scores are photocopies I collected in the years. I compromise on the quality 400dpi (instead of 600dpi or more). My scans are not perfect, but enough readable. If not I am happy to reupload on demand. For the rest i sleep few hours per night :-))) ---Ctesibius Talk to Me Email me 15:29, 12 January 2010 (CET)
Template:LinkComp works for any generic composer whose surname comes first on the category page, such as William Byrd or Giovanni Pierluigi da Palestrina, which is the case for probably about 99% of composers on IMSLP. It displays the composer’s name in normal writing order [First name(s) Surname] while linking to Category:Surname, First name(s). The one you need for Josquin Desprez (since his surname was actually Lebloitte, whereas he was known universally as Josquin) is the special version of the template, Template:LinkCompS, which can do three different things:
  1. If you feed it only one parameter, it works as a boring old category linker: {{LinkCompS|Josquin Desprez}} produces Josquin Desprez (use it also for Anonymous, Various, etc.)
  2. If you feed it only two parameters, i.e. first name(s) and surname, it only gives you back the surname: Byrd or Palestrina
  3. If you feed it three parameters, i.e. first name(s), surname, and customised name, it will link to the category page but give you flexibility over what is displayed: JS Bach
All you need to remember is that if LinkComp doesn't work, then either there's a subtle spelling error, or you need to add the "S" to get the special version LinkCompS.
Regards, Philip Legge @ © talk 22:00, 12 January 2010 (UTC)


The Malipiero edition is not PD, because the continuo realizations are by Malipiero, and he is not PD, as you know. Sorry! -- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 15:56, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Hi, I uploaded Book 1 and 2 which do not contain any continuo. Continuo realization are present from book 5 onward. -- Ctesibius Talk to Me Email me 15:58, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
****Blush****-- Snailey Talk to Me Email me 16:16, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Outstanding contribution, Ctesibius. You might want to consider getting rid of Malipiero's preface in Vol. 1 when you have the opportunity. Thanks, Carolus 22:44, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, Carolus. Book 1 is fixed. I uploaded book 3 & 4. For the rest we have to wait for long :-((

Pozzoli collections

Since the composers didn't compile these collections, the individual pieces should be split out and placed onto their respective pages. However, since it's also good to have the collection available as a whole, I moved them under Pozzoli's name. They can be split up at some later date by whoever wishes to do it. Thanks, Carolus 21:53, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Post-1963 issues of Critical Editions

Hello Ctesibius,

First of all, thanks so much for all of your wonderful contributions! For items like DTÖ first issued after 1963, they will be subjected to the infamous [TB] if they bear US-compliant copyright notice. Everything from 1964-1977 was automatically renewed and would be protected for a full 95-year term as long as the proper notice appeared. I just don't want you to spend a lot of time and effort to make a great scan only to be disappointed when the item is "temporarily blocked" due to its USA status. I suppose you could try to obtain permission from whoever is in control of DTÖ, in which case we could unblock it. Thanks, Carolus 19:54, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Hi Carolus, thanks for the point. US copyright is really a bad beast... Asking the DTO can be a good idea. Do you think a request from IMSLP would be better than a single user's? I know the Austrian copyright law is quite restrictive. And probably this is the reason why DTO is not online like DDT. -- Ctesibius 21:43, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

I'll ask Feldmahler about doing this. They might be more amenable to an official request from us, but we really do not want to get into arguments with them over copyright interpretation either. IMSLP does not appear to be very popular with music publishers, so we have to be discreet. Oh, and yes you are correct - USA copyright is truly a beast!! Regards, Carolus 23:47, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

50 Etüden für den Anfang, Op.101 (Lee, Sebastian)

Hi Ctesibius! Unfortunately, the editor Ludwig Lebell appears to have died in 1968, making this edition under copyright everywhere except the US; I therefore had to delete it. Sorry, KGill talk email

Hi, are you sure? The (C) is 1920... sounds strange

y the way what make his contribution to be copyrighted. The fingers are already in the original (I have few pages of the A. Cranz edition). If I am not wrong in Europe for the (C) for technical edition is 20/25 years

Thx, --Ctesibius 13:52, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Lebell could also have added other markings such as new bowing instructions, articulations, etc. However, if those also appear to be the same, then you're correct, it would fall under the urtext provisions in Canada and the EU and can be undeleted. I guess the fact that the score says 'Revised and edited' doesn't have much bearing on the nature of the actual contributions... KGill talk email 14:10, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Cantantibus organis and others

Hi Ctesibius! I'm italian too but seems to me that it's a consolitated habit to talk in english here so I'll write in english those lines to THANK YOU VERY MUCH for your wonderful submissions, I play every Sunday an organ with "temperamento mesotonico" and anthologies like "Cantantibus Organis", Dalla Libera's "Liber organi" and also Andrea Gabrieli's works have been truly a blessing for me!

I've also appreciated very much Desprez' Masses, I live near Milano and I had the occasion to knew his music when some years ago I heard one of his beautiful motets sung by the Cappella Musicale del Duomo!!!

Keep up the good work!!!

--Andrea89 02:50, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Hi Andrea, thanks a lot. Glad to hear you find my contributions useful. You can contact me privately in the forums (same nickname). Where is this organ with mean tuning? Is an historical on? Cantantibus Organis is a nice collection. The same cannot be said of the SAT's Liber Organi, quite old and far from being urtext. --Ctesibius 08:04, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Schütz Edition

I recently discovered my interest in music by Schütz and therefore was happy to find, that you seem to plan uploading those parts of the Schütz-Edition that are free now. As I'm especially interested in the Madrigals Op.1 (which seem to be published in 1962, so they should be out of copyright), I'd like to know if you have any plans to put them here somewhere in the (hopefully near) future. --BoccaccioTalk Email 11:54, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Hi Boccaccio, yes indeed I would like to upload as much as possible by Schuetz. Unfortunately not all vols are available in the local library and I think Madrigals is one of that. Maybe i can find it via inter loan library. Stay tuned. --Ctesibius 07:58, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Oh that's good news. I'm already looking forward to more Schütz :-) --BoccaccioTalk Email 11:44, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

12 Violin Sonatas, Op.1 (Veracini, Francesco Maria)

Hi, I think the files you uploaded here will have to be deleted. Not only is there a continuo realization (which is probably under copyright in most places because it does seem at least slightly original), but Kolneder also added fingerings, bowings, dynamics, etc. - making it rather far from an urtext-style edition. Sorry, KGill talk email 16:18, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

Pity. I hope I can find another edition or the first edition. Sorry for the incoveniece. --Ctesibius 20:20, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
Hi KGill, I am happy to see the Sonatas again in the collection. Has changed anything in the police since last June when they were deleted and now marked C/C/V?

--Ctesibius 13:44, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

Hm, Carolus must have decided that the edition was OK to have here - strange. I'll ask him about it; I was not aware it had been uploaded and I'm not sure I agree with his tag, though his opinion does tend to outweigh everyone else's ;-) Thanks, KGill talk email 04:18, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

First editions

Hi, We now have a template for this: {{FE}}, which automatically puts any page where it's used into the category Pages with First Editions. It makes life a bit easier too. Carolus 05:07, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

thanks! I'll use it --Ctesibius 15:16, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Morandi Organ-Works

Many thanks for all the Morandi organ volumes, which are exactly what I've been looking-for for some time now. If you're planning to upload any more of these, I would also be particularly interested in Raccoltas 3 and 9, and am trying to identify the source for a Pastorale in D major. Any ideas? Best wishes, Kerr Jamieson, 19 July 2011.

Hi Kerr, what I uploaded is all Morandi in my hands. I hope i can find the missing collections (at least 12 to my knowledge). Morandi wrote lot of music most of it still in manuscript and i guess still not catalogued. --Ctesibius 14:56, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Well, good luck! And thanks again for all you've done so far. -- KJ 07:38, 22 July 2011.