User talk:Daphnis/archive2


Schubert Works

Hello and thanks for your message!

I would be delighted to see a complete Schubert collection on IMSLP. What originally started as my intention to contribute all the Lieder has become increasingly addictive and grown to include an increasing number of part-songs, other vocal and choral works and instrumental works. (I'm sure there are some good medications that can help people like me.)

I have uploaded all of the Schubert songs contained in the Breitkopf & Hartel Complete Works Edition (i.e. Vol 20, Nos. 1-602). CDSM states that they have 598 songs (v1.0) or 599 songs (v2.0) so I would imagine that this would cover pretty much all of them. I have CDSM v2.0 on order so I will double-check when it arrives.

These are the Lieder/other small vocal works which do not yet have links (and the best information I have on their whereabouts, according to Deutsch and Hyperion):

  • D.1A - Lebenstraum, 1st setting (Gesang in c minor), see D.39 - Neue Schubert Ausgabe 1969.
  • D.17 - Settings of "Quell' innocente figlio" - published 1940 in "Die junge Schubert" by Alfred Orel (1889-1967).
  • D.33 - Settings of "Entra l'uomo allor che nasce" - Orel 1940 (see above)
  • D.34 - "Te solo adoro" for four mixed voices - Orel 1940.
  • D.35 - "Serbate, O Dei custodi" for various voices - Orel 1940.
  • D.39 - Lebenstraum ("Ich sass an einer Tempelhalle am Musenhain") - Neue Schubert Ausgabe 1969.
  • D.47 - "Dithyrambe" for tenor solo and mixed chorus - published privately by Reinhard van Hoorickx (1918-1997)
  • D.70 - "Ewig still steht die Vergangenheit", canon for 3 voices - Facsimile published in "The Musical Quarterly", New York, Oct. 1928, opposite p.515.
  • D.92 - Canon for 2 voices "Lass immer in der Jugend Glanz". Lost.
  • D.127 - Canon for 2 voices "Selig alle, die im Herrn entschlafen". Lost.
  • D.132 - "Lied beim Rundetanz" for male voices TTB. Lost.
  • D.133 - "Lied im Freien" for male voices TTB. Lost.
  • D.144 - "Romanze" (fragment). Gesamtausgabe (1895), Revisionsbericht.
  • D.164 - "Liebesrausch", 1st version (Fragment) - published Jan 1928 in "Musik aus aller Welt", Vienna, Vol. i, No. 1, p.7, ed. O.E Deutsch (1883-1967)
  • D.172 - "Der Morgenstern" (fragment). Not printed.
  • D.201 - "Auf den Tod einer Nachtigall", 1st version. Published 1970 in "Revue Belge de Musicologie" by Reinhard van Hoorickx.
  • D.208 - "Die Nonne", 1st version. Gesamtausgabe (1894), Revisionsbericht.
  • D.215 - "Jägers Abendlied", 1st version - published 15 Jan. 1907 in "Die Musik", Berlin, vol. vi, No. 7, supplement p. 2-3 (ed. Eusebius Mandyczewski)
  • D.245 - "An den Frühling", 1st version. Already scanned and uploaded by me as 1st version of *D.587, its companion piece. My bad. I'll put that on my list of things to move.
  • D.249 - "Der Schlacht", sketch of cantata. Not printed.
  • D.311 - "An den Mond", fragment. Not printed.
  • D.327 - "Lorma", 1st version (fragment). Privately printed in 1928 by Walter Schulz, Stuttgart.
  • D.329a - Sketch of quartet "Das Grab" - Neue Schubert Ausgabe (date = ?)
  • D.332 - Trio "Der Enfernten". Lost.
  • D.333 - Trio "Lass dein Vertrauen nicht schwinden". Lost.
  • D.339 - Trio "Amor's Macht". Lost.
  • D.340 - Trio "Badelied". Lost.
  • D.341 - Trio "Sylphen". Lost.
  • D.344 - "Am ersten Maimorgen". Privately published by Reinhard van Hoorickx (date = ?)
  • D.356 - Quartet "Trinklied". Not included in the Gesamtausgabe. Published 1 June 1844 in "Allgemeine Wiener Musikzeitung" as supplement no 4 (vol. iv, no. 66).
  • D.363 - "An Chloen" (fragment). Published in the "Music Review", 1954.
  • D.396 - "Gruppe aus dem Tartarus" (1st version, fragment). First published 1975.
  • D.416 - "Lied in der Abwesenheit" (Fragment). Published December 1925 in "Moderne Welt", Vienna, Supplement pp.1-2 (ed. O.E. Deutsch)
  • D.423 - Trio "Andenken". Published November 1927 in "Festblätter für das 10. Deutsche Sängerbundesfest, Wien 1928", no. 3, p.59 (ed. O.E. Deutsch)
  • D.424 - Trio "Errinerungen". As for D.423, p. 58
  • D.425 - Trio "Lebenslied". Lost.
  • D.426 - Trio "Trinklied". Lost.
  • D.428 - Trio "Widerhall". As for D.423, p.57
  • D.437 - "Klage an den Mond" (2nd version). Unpublished?
  • D.451 - Cantata "Prometheus". Lost.
  • D.469 - "Mignon", 2 fragments. Gestamtausgabe (1895), Revisionsbericht.
  • D.503 - "Mailied" - Privately published by Reinhard van Hoorickx (date = ?)
  • D.512 - "Der Leidende", 3rd version ("Klage"). Published recently but I can't track down exactly when and where. (there are recordings of it out there)
  • D.555 - A song without title or words. Published 21 September 1934 in "Radio Wien", vol x, no.52, p.13 (ed. O.E. Deutsch), Vienna.
  • D.582 - "Augenblicke im Elysium". Lost.
  • D.607 - "Evangelium Johannes" for soprano with figured bass. Published 1902 in Heuberger's "Schubert", Berlin (Harmonie), following p.56
  • D.621 - "Deutsche Trauermesse." Published 1825-6 under the name of Ferdinand Schubert (the composer's brother). Republished as the work of Franz Schubert in 1928 (ed. Strache, Vienna, No.19, ed. O.E. Deutsch)
  • D.635 - Quartet "Ruhe" ("Leise, leise lasst uns singen"). Published in 1900 by Ries & Erler (Berlin), and in 1902 in Heuberger's "Schubert" (Berlin), opposite p.40.
  • D.639 - "Widerschein", 2nd version. Published in 1820 without opus number, but not included in the Gesamtausgabe.
  • D.624 - Chorus "Das Feuerwerk" ("Viel tausend Sterne prangen"). Published 1937 by Universal Edition, no. 10,898, ed. A. Orel, arranged for male voices by H. H. Scholtys
  • D.645 - "Abend" (sketch).First published by Dietrich Berke in "Schubert-Kongress" (1978) and then in the Neue Schubert Ausgabe (1996).
  • D.663 - "Der 13. Psalm" - published August 1927 in "Festblätter für das 10. Deutsche Sängerbundesfest, Wien 1928", no.1, pp.8-9 (ed. O.E. Deutsch).
  • D.665 - Quartet "Im traulichen Kreise". Lost.
  • D.683 - "Die Wolkenbraut". Lost.
  • D.725 - Duet "Linde Lüfte wehen" (fragment). Published 1929 by Martin Breslauer (Berlin) in "Festschrift für Johannes Wolf", p.36
  • D.863 - "An Gott". Lost.
  • D.864 - "Das Totenhemdchen". Lost.
  • D.874 - "O Quell, was strömst du rasch und wild" (sketch). First published 1959 by Reinhard van Hoorickx.
  • D.896 - "Fröhliches Scheiden" (sketch). Published 1902 in Heuberger's "Schubert", p.16-17 (Verlag Harmonie, Berlin)
  • D.916 - Quartet "Das stille Lied". Unpublished?
  • D.941 - Quartet "Hymnus an den heiligen Geist", 1st version. Lost.
  • D.984 - Quartet "Der Wintertag" - published c.1865 by C.A. Spina (Vienna, no.17933), as op. posth. 169, but not included in the Gesamtausgabe.
  • D.989 - "Die Erde". Lost.
  • D.990 - "Der Graf von Habsburg" (fragment). Unpublished?
  • D.991 - "O lasst euch froh begrüssen, Kinder der vergnügten Au". (fragment). Unpublished?
  • D.992 - Part-song "Wer wird sich nicht innig freuen" (fragment). Unpublished?

Sorry about the long list but I don't think there is an easy way to make an inventory like that!

I haven't got any of the symphonies in my scanning queue, and I would be delighted if you (or someone you know) would see fit to upload those. Like you, there is a limit to how much I (as one person) can do!

Here are the works which I have waiting to scan and upload as of today (Sunday 4 May 2008):

  • Rondo for Violin and String Quartet, D.43
  • Trio for Violin, Viola and Cello, D.581
  • 5 Overtures: D.4, D.26, D.470, D.556. D.590
  • Magnificat, D.486
  • Stabat Mater, D.175
  • Stabat Mater (Klopstock), D.383
  • Cantata "Lazarus" (unfinished), D.689
  • Opera "Adrast" (fragment), D.137
  • Singspiel "Der vierjährige Posten", D.190
  • Singspiel "Fernando", D.220
  • Singspiel "Claudine von Villa Bella", D.239
  • Singspiel "Die Freunde von Salamanka", D.326
  • Opera "Die Bürgschaft", D.345
  • Aria and Duet for Hérold's opera "Das Zauberglöckchen", D.723
  • Opera "Fierrabras", D.796

If a piece is not on the above list, and not already on IMSLP, it means I haven't managed to track it down yet and it is fair game for you and everybody else. I'll try to keep this list updated on my scanning queue, and add any more pieces I acquire.

Sorry once again for the long post, but this way at least the effort to complete the Schubert page can start to get organized! Aldona 02:53, 4 May 2008 (EDT)

Aldona, thanks for your message. I'm hoping I can *try* to get to some of the Schubert symphonies first, then other orchestral works this summer. At present I'm still quite busy with trying to complete some of the French composers' complete works, including Debussy's opera and Dukas' opera. I thought I might also add that if you're trying to hunt down any particular Schubert lied that you know was published but you can't get, let me know as I'm a graduate student at university and have access to interlibrary loan features offered for free to students. Daphnis 09:59, 4 May 2008 (EDT)

Schubert Works

Thank you for the offer to upload the Schubert Octets and Nonet - that would be wonderful!

It doesn't have to be the Kalmus score - I have been using these because they are easier and less expensive to get hold of than the old Gesamtausgabe. If you have a copy of the original, that would be a bonus (as they would still have the plate numbers).

I don't know about the Neue Ausgabe though - isn't that more recent, and would it still be under copyright? I seem to recall dates of 1960's to the present mentioned in discussions about it. Whereas the works themselves are obviously long since PD, the Neue Ausgabe has been edited by contemporary editors and scholars.

If it turns out that your source is PD, that would be great - another step closer to a complete Schubert page. Aldona 17:35, 9 May 2008 (EDT)

Hans Ourdine

Hi Daphnis, I gather that this is a pseudonym for Stephane Chapelier. Do you happen to know Chapelier's dates? If he died less than 50 years ago (which is unlikely but not impossible), the transcriptions would be still protected in Canada. Thanks. Carolus 17:24, 11 May 2008 (EDT)

Yes, Chapelier used a pseudonym (Hans Ourdine = en sourdine = muted (very Satie-esque)) for these transcriptions. I've just done some checking online and the dates I found were (1884-1966), but I haven't been able to verify I have the right ones. If I find these are correct I will, of course, delete the 2 works transcribed by him. Daphnis 17:40, 11 May 2008 (EDT)

Scanning Advice

Hi, I noticed that you're going to try and post the complete works of Chabrier. I have a related scanning question (since you seem to be the scanning guru here): What's the best way to get a decent resolution monochrome TIFF from microfilm? I have a nice roll of film here with two Chabrier full scores on it - Gwendoline and Le Roi Malgre Lui. I'd love to add these to our collection, but am not exactly sure what is the best way to convert these to PDFs. Any ideas? Carolus 20:10, 28 May 2008 (EDT)

Hmm, I haven't dealt with microfilm in a long time, but I remember the last time I did I had access to a digital microfilm station that allowed me to dump the images to files with post-processing filters activated. I'll check with my university library to see if they can let me use their machines for this purpose (assuming you'd be fine with mailing me your films--if not I had planned on scanning each of these from the first edition scores anyway). Otherwise, I'd have to do some checking to see what services might be out there for such a purpose. Daphnis 20:16, 28 May 2008 (EDT)
Well, I just checked out the scanning situation, and if you're talking about the full scores to both of these operas, it would take a very, very long time to digitize them using the machines at my disposal. While I wasn't able to test them on music, the results on newsprint weren't so favorable. Because of this, I would only use this as a very last option if I couldn't hunt down printed versions of the scores. How many pages are we talking here? And what's the quality of the microfilm itself? Are the images rather clear? After playing around with it more, if the images themselves are clear and generally about the same quality, i.e. care was taken in creating the film, then it might not be too much of a chore.Daphnis 13:47, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

Hi, I am talking about the full orchestral score for both operas, which run to over 500 pages apiece. The images on the film are fairly decent - at least they were on the reader I was using. Of course, if you have access to printed copies of the full scores (which are much more rare than the vocal / piano scores) it would make more sense scan those directly. The French publishers actually engraved a fair number of full scores for the opera they published, but the print runs must have been quite small. I've seen references for full scores of nearly all the Massenet operas, and some other fairly well-known ones like the Delibes Lakme (which I have a scanned vocal score for). If you weren't referring to the partition d'orchestre, I'd be glad to send you the film if you have the time and energy to transfer them to PDF format. From your description it appears to be a fairly labor-intensive task, though. Carolus 01:20, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

Yes, I was sure you were talking about the full orchestral scores. Another option I didn't mention was that there are send-off services for digitization work like this, and it happens to be available from my university library. The price quoted to me was $75 (not sure if that was a flat fee or a beginning price). Maybe I'll take you up on your films sometime later in the year as I have quite a lot of work on my plate now as it is. I'd be very excited to see both these orchestral scores make it onto IMSLP! Daphnis 10:23, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

$75 is not a bad price for that by any means. I've gotten some quotes for as much as $250. Let me know when and if you have time and I'll send the film to you - along with a check for the $75. Carolus 17:46, 30 May 2008 (EDT)


Hello, Daphnis. I really love Satie and I have almost all his works, but I haven't got Uspud. Can you, please, upload Uspud? Thank you so much! I search everywhere, but there wasn't "Uspud". Thank you so much!

Hi, please see the Wishlist for all the Satie works under copyright. Basically, if you don't see a Satie work on his page it's because it's still under copyright. Daphnis 09:06, 1 July 2008 (EDT)
There's Uspud on the list. Thanks anyway! --Werther
It's on the list to show it is still under copyright and may not be uploaded. If you'd like to purchase a copy I can give you a few hints. Daphnis 10:54, 1 July 2008 (EDT)
Can you give me a few hints? I'll be thankfull. I really want to have Uspud. :) Thanks! Werther
Uspud was first published in 1970 by what is now Salabert. Di-arezzo online has a copy for 11 Euro here. Daphnis 12:44, 1 July 2008 (EDT)

More on Uspud (the plot thickens): Fogwall's Satie page lists the work as published in 1895. This seems to be a fairly up-to-date catalog, so the citation is of interest. It also has bearing on copyright status of the work itself, as opposed to the edition thereof. Valse-Ballet and Fantaisie-Valse are listed as being first published in 1887, the Ogives in 1889, Vexations in 1949, which if true would potentially make them all free to post in Canada. The Danse de Travers is from the Pieces Froides, and the Gnosienne No. 7 is better known as Trois Morceaux en forme de Poire. Carolus 01:33, 2 July 2008 (EDT)

I've checked all of those and cannot find any existing printed copies from those dates, or any dates making them PD in Canada. Many exist with revisions by Robert Caby. There are evidently 2 Danse de Travers as explained by Caby on the bottom of the Danse de Travers from 1970:

Cette pièce inédite est la première dont le manuscrit fasse mention du titre de "Danse de Travers". Mais plus qu'aux "Danses de Travers" elle s'apparente aux "Airs à faire fuir" et conduit tout naturellement à cet ensemble de pièces écrites en 1897 et publiées en 1912 par Satie sous le titre géneral de "Pièces Froides". Daphnis 09:03, 2 July 2008 (EDT)

Hi, sorry for coming into this discussion, but you were talking about scanning and tiff... wouldn't png be a better proposal to keep the files, since it is a lossless compressed format ? Dsoslglece 05:34, 22 September 2008 (EDT)

I'm not sure how scanning format relates to this discussion, but in any case, PNG isn't necessary for music scores. Music doesn't require lossless storage because it can be expressed in the simplest amount of storage (1-bit/monochrome) and the compression used on it makes it visually undetectable. TIFF @ 1-bit is essentially the international standard for any black and white material. Daphnis 08:02, 22 September 2008 (EDT)


Hi Daphnis, Did you send the e-mail to I haven't noticed anything there from you, so I wonder if you sent it elsewhere. At any rate, I'll be glad to help in whatever way I can with your Satie list. As far as Canada goes, anything first published over 50 years ago (before 1958) is fair game. The USA is, as you know, much more convoluted. I am wanting to obtain copies of the music volumes for the Catalog of Copyright Entries and I wondered if your inter-library loan abilities could help in this regard so we could scan, and ultimately key into a database, all of the registrations from 1923-1950 and renewals from 1950-1978. I think Relache was first published in 1926 by Rouart, Lerolle, which means it would be free in Canada, at least for the piano score. Carolus 21:10, 1 July 2008 (EDT)

Carolus, I responded to your email I had from our last conversation regarding the Sports et Divertissements, which according to my mail list was sent from I also emailed you at but the email got bounced back. As for the Catalog of Copyright Entries, I can certainly get those, in fact my current university's library appears to have from 1957-1977. Which catalogs should we start with, 1923? I don't know how large these volumes are, but if they're anything like the M schedule I sent to either yourself of Feldmahler, they shouldn't take much time. Relâche is indeed PD in Canada and I intend to scan and upload it sometime in the coming weeks. That, as far as I can tell at this point in time, will complete the PD Satie catalog here on IMSLP. If you can find/think of anything else at all, do let me know. Daphnis 21:26, 1 July 2008 (EDT)

Ha! I just saw that I typed my own e-mail wrong - sorry! It's - I wonder why I didn't notice the Sports et Divertissements in the yahoo account - it could have accidentally been moved to the trash, I suppose. At any rate, it appears that everything on the list you've posted was first published less than 50 years ago, so unless I can find an earlier example of something (unlikely but not completely impossible), I expect you've got (almost) everything up that is free in Canada. Uspud is listed as having been privately printed (1893?, by the composer?) in Kenneth Thompson's Dictionary of 20th Century Composers. The piano score for Mercure is listed as being published in 1930, but not the orchestral score. As for the CCE, I'd advocate starting with the renewals for 1950 and do those first. After that, we should start with the Class E registrations for 1923 and move forward. Registration was a prerequisite for renewal, so anything that was registered between 1923 and 1950 and not renewed after 28 years had only the first term (unless they fall under GATT, of course). Carolus 00:28, 2 July 2008 (EDT)

Ok then, I'll track down the 1950 volume then 1923? So did you then get my email sent a few days ago regarding the microfilms? Uspud was first printed in complete form in 1970 according to my research. The piano score to Mercure is already present. Daphnis 01:03, 2 July 2008 (EDT)

I just looked through everything at the Yahoo account, and it's not there. Please re-send the e-mail re: microfilm. I've never seen anything in a library catalog about the private printing of Uspud, and it wouldn't be the first time Thompson proved to be incorrect, so 1970 stands as far as I know. For CCE, let's do all the renewals (which they divided up oddly as I recall) from 1950-77, which should cover everything published from 1923-1950 and not renewed. After that, we can go back and pick up the 1923-63 registrations. Not much point in checking registrations for anything published 1964-77, unless it was published in the USA without a notice (very unlikely) since renewal was automatic starting for items published in 1964. I'll continue to look around for Satie items - since it would be great fun if we could find something that was first published before Salabert claims it was! Carolus 01:18, 2 July 2008 (EDT)

Please help!! New User :)

Hello -

User:Carolus reccomended I ask you my questions.

I uploaded the piano score for teh ballet "The Little Humpbacked Horse" by Cesare Pugni.

Carolus reduced my 61 page PDF file from 120 MBs to 7.7. MBs. She took the following steps -

  1. Exported all pages as TIFF files at 300 dpi grayscale.
  2. Set the threshold for all music pages to 160.
  3. Converted to bitmap from grayscale.
  4. Used Acrobat to make a PDF of all music pages.

Could you please help me figure out how to go about this? I have tons of rare sheet music I would love to share!

--Thanks :) --MrLopez2681 12:36, 24 July 2008 (EDT)

Is your sheetmusic in TIFF format already? If so, how have you scanned them? Do you have Acrobat Professional? I need more info. from you before I can help. Daphnis 12:56, 24 July 2008 (EDT)
Hello! and thanks for your reply - I had originally uploaded the PDF file at 120 MBs and the pages were in JPEG. Carolus re-uploaded the music after converting the JPEGs to TIFF and then brought the file down from 120 MBs to 7.7 MBs. Unfortunately the re-upload left out some pages so I think its best just to start over.
So now were back to square one - the 61 pages are JPEG, and I put them into PDF using PDFill. I would love to know how I can shrink the file down as much as Carolus did, as well as transfering to TIFF (do I need to tranfser to TIFF in order to take the MB's down?).
Thanks a whole bunch Daphnis! --MrLopez2681 13:52, 24 July 2008 (EDT)
You need to first convert the JPEGs to TIFF as bitmap 1-bit images, then re-compile the PDF. You didn't answer if you had Acrobat Pro. Are you looking to just fix this one file, or all your scans? Again, you didn't answer if all your sheet music was already in JPEG format. More info., please. Daphnis 14:54, 24 July 2008 (EDT)
I wanted to note that perhaps instead of trying to figure out how to fix this specific score (I know Carolus would be willing to do it again for this once), it may be worthwhile to figure out how to make the scans in monochrome for future scans (I assume that you have not yet scanned more of your collection). And so I wanted to ask you whether it is possible for you to change the scanning settings such that you are scanning directly to monochrome (B&W). Also, would it be possible to save the image directly into TIFF instead of JPEG? Most image programs should be able to do this. If you have any other questions, do ask. --Feldmahler 15:21, 24 July 2008 (EDT)

That was EXACTLY my next comment. Please make sure you always scan music in monochrome (aka 1-bit color) at a minimum of 300dpi. Feldmahler, I really need to spend some time with the scanning page and rewrite a bunch of it. Daphnis 16:01, 24 July 2008 (EDT)

I was talking with Carolus on the phone about this an hour or so ago (hence my reply on your user talk page and the forums), and we agreed that we need a very clear and simple recipe or tutorial on how best to scan scores, instead of the list of rules currently there (and which I think do not help new contributors as much as a tutoral would).
I've been thinking about this in the last hour, and perhaps we can focus on getting the scanning (and possibly conversion) part of the process to work with GIMP (which would also work on both PC and MAC), using other (free) software only for the final TIFF->PDF conversion (perhaps GIMP also can create PDFs... I don't know myself but it seems like a good possibility). Unfortunately I do not use GIMP myself (I use only command line tools), so I would be unable to help much, at least right now when I'm still trying to fix the bugs in the IMSLP code. If you know other programs that are free and even easier to use than GIMP for IMSLP purposes, that'd be great.
So it will certainly be nice to have a simple tutorial on how to scan and create PDF files, using only free software (preferably PC and MAC friendly, or else a separate method for each), so people don't have to buy anything to contribute. It'd be very nice if you could find the time to do this, especially since you are a veteran scanner (no pressure, you can even start a thread on the forums to get other people to contribute) :-) Also, if you have any alternative methods, do feel free to share! --Feldmahler 16:44, 24 July 2008 (EDT)
All of the music I intend to upload is scanned in JPEG. I dont use acrobat pro.
Thanks you guys!! :) MrLopez2681 17:35, 24 July 2008 (EDT)
There's a program freeware called IrfanView that should convert just fine. I don't use freewares to convert images to PDF because one of the best advantages of small PDF size is the JBIG2 lossy or lossless compression available (AFAIK) in Acrobat Pro. Daphnis 20:28, 25 July 2008 (EDT)

Bartok's "Concerto for Orchestra"

Hi Daphnis,

This is a similar but not quite as similar request to Daniel's, who requested the score for Bartok's "Music for Strings, Percussion, and Celesta". I wanted the score for Bartok's "Concerto for Orchestra", but seeing is it's blocked and that you will not e-mail scores that have been blocked, I'm wondering if I can ask another favour of you. I only wanted the score to figure out tempi and meters of miscellaneous movements for my upcoming music history exam. I'm wondering if you would consider finding out the keys of the first, second, third, and fifth movements and the tempi of the third and fifth movements for me and e-mailing them to me at

I really appreciate if you will do this little favour for me, Daphnis. I hope to hear from you soon!

Thanks a bunch,


Vincent d'Indy

Hi Daphnis, I am amazed by how much D'Indy is on IMSLP! Thank you for putting all his wonderful music on here. However, I'm not able to get to the Fantaisie sur un Vieil Air de Ronde Française, Op.99 and 6 Paraphrases sur des Chansons Enfantines de France, Op.95. I was wondering if you could email those two scores to me at . If you could that'd be a rather fantastic! By the way, I'm curious as to where you got all these works, because most of them either aren't in print or they aren't in most online sheet music stores. --HeninMeister 13:05, 15 August 2008 (EDT)

HeninMeister, those files are currently being blocked due to internal reasons. When they will become available is anyone's guess at this point. As to my sources: libraries, friends in France and personal collection. I hope you find them useful! With the exception of a few scores (3 opera vocal scores coming soon), this collection represents over 90% of all his printed output. Daphnis 14:39, 15 August 2008 (EDT)


Hi, Your remark about the discrepancy between the plate number and the publication date on the copyright claim led me to do some research on this. Sad to say, the full score apparently wasn't actually published until 1925 because Schmitt took that long to orchestrate it thanks to WW I and other reasons. Durand apparently assigned the plate number in 1914 but the composer didn't actually complete the full score until 1925, when it was engraved and printed with the number assigned 11 years before. I checked this out in the New Grove's online article (subscription only) and confirmed elsewhere (CD program notes). Carolus 03:21, 25 August 2008 (EDT)

Very interesting, and thanks for checking on that! Daphnis 07:41, 25 August 2008 (EDT)

Music by Guillaume Lekeu

Hi Daphnis. First of all, thank you very much for the amazing pieces you uploaded during the last weeks (and special thanks for the effort of Albert Roussel, thanks to you I discovered his sinfonietta). I though you would be interested by Lekeu's Piano/Violin sonata i recently uploaded. I am really impressed by this composer who saddly died at the age of 24. I tried to set up a List of compositions by Guillaume Lekeu. Do you have access to any of the scores listed (especially chamber music and orchestra scores) ? Cheers, --Matthieu 10:16, 26 August 2008 (EDT)

Hi, and yes I do have access to probably most of his scores. I haven't heard any of his music nor have I heard of this composer to date. You scans of the violin sonata look quite nice. If you'd like to lower the file size and retain the clarity, you may better scan scores in 1-bit (i.e. monochrome, black & white). What this will also do, although not necessarily a huge deal, is ignore any scratches or blotches on your scanner bed, which several appear in the scans of the piano part. Best, Daphnis 10:35, 26 August 2008 (EDT)

Thanks for the advice. Usually I scan in black and white (and 600dpi, that may explain the size), and I though it was the case this time also (except for the front page). But I used for the first time a A3 scanner (the score was oversized for A4) that is not mine and looked more like a xerox copier. I am not sure I controlled all the parameters. I am also not very happy with the geometrical aberrations that appeared on some pages (staves of the piano part are wavy on the top of some pages). Let's go back to Lekeu. As you seem to appreciate french music (Lekeu is from Belgium in fact) from late 19th century and early 20th, you should really find it nice. Is piano/violin sonata has a deep Franck influence, but is very original. I would be very curious to have a look at his "Adagio pour quatuor d'orchestre" that is described as a masterpiece in many articles I read. So if you have access and some time to spend on it..., Regards,--Matthieu 15:01, 26 August 2008 (EDT)

Menuet Antique

Hello, Daphnis. I am a master student of wuhan conservatory of music in china. and i research is Maurice Ravel s orch. music。 I really love ravel and I have almost all his works expect Menuet Antique (orch. score). I see the PDFscore in IMSLP. but I cannot download it.Can you, please, post it to my email( Thank you so much! your sincerely! Yang kai 2008.9.2

I'm sorry, but I do not privately email files. You'll have to wait for IMSLP to unblock the file. Daphnis 14:42, 3 September 2008 (EDT)

Do you have magnard's work?

I love him very much!I think he might be the greatest composer in his era, if he can live more time.Do you have some sheetmusic of him? Thanks!

Sorry, I don't have any of his works. Daphnis 11:38, 15 September 2008 (EDT)

About post-romantic French composers: Lekeu, Magnard, and many others

Hello Daphnis, and some of the ones writing on here...

I must say that I'm new on here, and that, seing the subjects discussed on your page had the effect of honey on a bee... Being a professional violinist specialized in chamber music (sonata up to nonet or more), I've got lot of music sheets from known or even unknown composers, particularly from the Franco-Belgian school (one of my preferred period), chamber works, from sonata till nonet... Lekeu, Ysaÿe (most of his chamber music), Magnard, P. de Bréville, G. Samazeuilh, H. Woolett, (friend of d'Indy), S. Lazzari, and even Paolo Litta (I do consider him linked to this particular school), and of course I will be quite delighted to add all that on here...

Having spent many years trying to make people discover those composers by playing them in concert, and then spending quite lot of time distributing some of those concerts on the net, now, helping to distribute those music sheets is going in the same direction... since most of this music is completely out of print today. I even could upload some of the recordings when no other one would be available.

By the way, here is the time to do this, since those musics of mine had been for few years stored in boxes in a barn, but I've just finished to build a proper library for them, and now I've got a total and free access to it (the whole wall of the room).

By the way, if you are doing a work on some of those composers, I also may have some not too widely known data concerning some of them, by having made some researches my self (Litta, a real master!) but also having had some contact with people close to some (Woolett, Ysaÿe...). so, you could contact me if you'd be interested by something, either on my page or here, or even by mail.

I take the oportunity to add on the intention of someone else here, asking something about Lekeu' works... I just added two more pieces on his list (don't have the sheets unfortunately), and I hope it was correctly done... I tried to imitate the preceeding text format...

That person said, if I can well remember yet what I read, that he never heard Lekeu's works... They are great works!!... and when playing his last quartet (unachieved) ending after the slow movement, the public, after the tumultuous first allegro, received like an uppercut on the chest, and on the end of that slow movement where time seems to stop, aware of the fact that this notes were the last notes he wrote, stay always very silent for quite a long time, sort of digesting it, before to start the applauses... We generally finished the concert on it.

At the moment, this recording is not good enough to make available (recorded only as witness and control, the balance has to be remasterized etc...), but I could propose one, with the violin sonata recorded privately, also for control, just the day before a broadcast on SABC. It has been already downloaded hundreds of times on Azureus since the last 6 monthes...

Someone else talked about Magnard, and I've got some parts (violin sonata, piano trio, and Piano quintett (pno, fl, htb, cl, Bn) some of his symphonies have been recorded on LP, (I also have had some contacts with his grand daughter Claire Vlach-Magnard when we performed his quintet, not me (!), but other musicians of the ensemble I was director of)

Hope to hear soon from some of you ...

Dsoslglece 15:51, 21 September 2008 (EDT)

Hello Sir/Madam and I'm glad to see we're of kindred spirit! Yes, please do contribute any of your rare works to IMSLP. While I am certainly doing quite a lot myself, there's no way I can get everything I'd like done in this lifetime. Your help is much needed! Regarding the Lekeu works you added, where did you add these? I don't see any new entries on his composer page or on the wishlist. Your recordings would be most welcome as these obscure pieces are either not recorded at all, or done so on rarely-released albums that are as difficult to obtain as often times the sheet music itself. Regarding Magnard, I may eventually post some of his works starting with the piano quintet, but at present I'm trying to finish posting the complete works of: Chabrier, Roussel and d'Indy while working on my new project, which is to have the complete (or near complete) works of Florent Schmitt available on IMSLP when he goes public domain in Canada on 1 January, 2009. Best wishes and let me know how I can help you out. Please contribute as much of your magnificent library as you can! Warm regards, Daphnis 19:07, 21 September 2008 (EDT)

Hi Daphnis,

so, one thing at a time: the two pieces from Lekeu were added following the link "List of works by Lekeu", appearing little bit earlier on this page.

You mentioned Florent Schmitt, and of course, you have his sonata "ad modum Clementis aquæ", but have you heard of the Cantilène for violin and piano, a short but beautiful piece, published at the same time I think as two others. I've got only this one of the 3, but (inspite of what I said yesterday), the classification in my library seems not to be that well done, since I looked for it for 10 mn this morning without success... but should you need it, I of course would spend the time necessary to unburden it, since I know I have it for sure, and even have a recording of it, done in concert with my wife at the piano (but the cassette is a bit old)... And, have you the F. Schmitt string-trio op 105 ?

Since you also talked about Ravel, do you know of his "berceuse" on the name of Fauré? and from d'Indy do you have the sonata for vln & pno op 59, and from Roussel the sonata op 11 (I think I've got also a second sonata), and the string trio op 58.

I also like to add just a warning about the parts fallen into the PD... the works are in PD, but one must make sure that the edition is also PD (I mean the printed page from Durand, Dupond, John Dough or UE...) since, then, it is safer to redo a layout with Finale.


Dsoslglece 06:37, 22 September 2008 (EDT)

Hi. Yes, I see the works you added. The format appears fine. I have many recordings of Schmitt's works, but not the Cantilène. I have it and will be adding it soon (the score). I also have the Op. 105 string trio and will be adding score and parts for it later. I also know the other works you mention (Ravel, d'Indy, Roussel), and I believe they are all present here on IMSLP. Regarding parts in PD, it is safe to say that all the parts and scores listed here and uploaded by myself are PD in at least Canada, sometime the US and EU. I have taken into consideration any contributors outside the original composer in determining their status. Best, Daphnis 08:12, 22 September 2008 (EDT)

About Debussy...

Hi, Daphnis... since you are working on Debussy, it came to my mind a very interesting letter from Debussy to Ysaÿe,that you may not have been aware of; both had been very dears friend until Debussy got fed up for Ysaÿe (and some other friends) helping his wife that he just booted out on the street... so this letter is about Nocturnes (yes, THE "Nocturnes"), originaly dedicated to Ysaÿe and written for solo-violin and different formations (!!)... after the break, Debussy removed the dedication... anyway, here is the letter:

"My very dear friend, I am working on three nocturnes for violin and orchestra. In the first, the orchestra consists of strings, in the second of flutes, four horns, three trumpets and two harps. The third is a combination of the two. It is in fact an attempt at research into various musical arrangements which result in the same color, as, for example, in painting one might make a study in gray. I hope it will interess you, and your reaction to it is what matter most to me... I wish you all success–it is so much your right. Your faithfull and devoted friend, Claude Debussy." Dsoslglece 14:22, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

About Berg's Lyrische Suite

You uploaded Berg's Lyrische Suite, but now I can't download it. What I must do? I really need this composition. Thank you a lot! Werther

Hi Werther. This piece is being blocked for the moment but should be available soon I think. You'll either have to find it elsewhere or buy a copy of the score yourself. Daphnis 16:45, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

Schoenberg: Erwartung, Op.17

It was first published in 1916 (full score, UE) - which I've personally seen, complete with a 1916 notice. So, despite the librettist making it protected in Canada, it is actually public domain in the USA. BTW, if you are interested in obtaining that score for inclusion in your collection, it's housed at Washington University's Gaylord Music Library in St. Louis. Carolus 21:36, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

It's housed in my collection also :) The copy I have bears plate U.E. 5361 and is written as copyright 1924 (full score). Is this the same? Perhaps I can put this up on SMF in that case, but too bad for IMSLP. I deleted the page just after I found the dates of the librettist. Daphnis 21:40, 3 October 2008 (EDT)
I see that it is. Very good news. I'll see if I can't get it posted over there. And the same question goes regarding linking for this piece as in my last email. Daphnis 23:12, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

Wagner: Fantasia, Op.3, WWV22

This appears to be taken from the volume of the Schott complete works, which started being issued sometime in the 1970s. Carolus 23:23, 10 October 2008 (EDT)

Schubert Octets/Nonet

Hello and thank you for your message! Sorry it's taking me a while to reply as I am having a few days of erratic computer behaviour and intermittent internet access.

I had a quick look and it appears that:

  • Octet D.72 - full score and parts have now been uploaded
  • Octet D.803 - full score is up, but not parts
  • Nonet D.79 (Eine Kleine Trauermusik) - nothing uploaded yet.

Take your time - I have not had much chance to scan things either, and my activity has been limited to quick uploads between patient sessions at work.

Aldona 23:03, 12 October 2008 (EDT)

Psalm 80, Op. 37

Hi, This is probably PD in the USA because Masters reprinted it (sometime after 1987, which is when they were launched). Did you really scan this from the reprint? It has the copyright notice of Summy-Birchard, which is something Masters would never include on a reprint. Yes, it's still available from Masters - W1117. Unless it's a case of them issuing a licensed reprint. Carolus 23:32, 15 October 2008 (EDT)

Yes, I actually scanned this from the Master's print, which because it still bears the copyright notice makes me think (unconfirmed) that they were reprinting under authority, because as you mentioned it would normally be something they'd never do. Daphnis 23:35, 15 October 2008 (EDT)

Thank you!

All of these Schonberg songs are a wonderful addition to IMSLP!--Snailey Yell at me 09:35, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

Your last Lekeu contributions

Hi Daphnis ! Thanks a lot for your last scans of Lekeu piano trio and quartet. I am so happy to have access to these nice pieces ! Few weeks ago I put requests at Sibley on both works. Apparently they are still queuing, but at some point they should emerge. So, unless you have already scanned it, you can downgrade the level of priority for the seperate parts of the quartet. Receive again all my thanks ! --Matthieu 16:00, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

Copyright on Works by Schmitt

I noticed that the copyright tags for your recent submissions of works by Schmitt usually include 08/v (or something else)/28. Wouldn't that make them V/V/28?? Is there something I'm missing?--Snailey Yell at me 09:10, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

No, they're all tagged at least 09/X/29 or the likes, because he won't be public domain (as clearly indicated on his composer page) until 1 January of next year. Daphnis 09:16, 31 October 2008 (EDT)
Ah. Microsoft internet explorer and too-small text wreak havoc with my already failing eyesight...--Snailey Yell at me 09:35, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

Saint-Saens and Faure

Thank you for all of your great scans of French composers! It makes me extremely excited to see the complete works of Saint-Saens and Faure (!) on your list!--Snailey Yell at me 22:38, 7 November 2008 (EST)

I am starting to sound like a broken record...--Snailey Yell at me 22:40, 7 November 2008 (EST)

Faure Songs

Hi Daphnis, Do you really want a separate work page for each song? We usually put one opus number on a work page, unless there is some reason we can't do so very easily or conveniently. BTW, the USA server will probably be open shortly after the first of the year, maybe even before. Carolus 01:16, 8 November 2008 (EST)

Not ideally, but I also don't want a single work page that says "Songs" and lump them all in there together. I'm following the work list in Grove and would normally list them according to the title given to the opus, but there isn't one listed (unless it was a generic Deux chansons or the likes), only the songs and their cataloging info. This will only be temporary as I'll go back and smooth everything out along with original publisher info. Do feel free to shuffle things around as you see fit, however. Nice to hear about the U.S. server coming back online. There wasn't anything useful in the way of Stravinsky cached on the old one. And speaking's complete. New and clear scans of all Dover reprints and other original source materials. Daphnis 01:22, 8 November 2008 (EST)

Forget it. I'm going to move them to generic pages like 2 Songs, Op. 2 to save myself time in the end. Daphnis 01:25, 8 November 2008 (EST)

Which edition is this?--Snailey Yell at me 20:42, 8 November 2008 (EST)

All first editions as (mostly) printed by Hamelle in 3 volumes (i (1879), ii (1897), iii (1908)) and subsequently reprinted by Dover and CDSM. Daphnis 20:55, 8 November 2008 (EST)

Thank you. It always creeps me out when there's no publisher information on the pages. Oughtn't we add it? And the "Scanned by" field (another OCD thing...)--Snailey Yell at me 21:32, 8 November 2008 (EST)

I will when I have more time. For now I'm just interested in making these available. When I complete his catalog (sometime early next year most likely) I'll clean-up and add other details. No need to add anything in the scanned by field. It's largely irrelevant. Daphnis 21:34, 8 November 2008 (EST)

Mahler Symphony No. 2

Hi,Mr.Daphnis,I very much want to have a glimpse at the score of Mahler Symphony No.2,which you have uploaded,but I can not download it due to the copyright issues.So is that possible that you send me the scores via e-mail privately and I promise I will only take it for personal use.Thank you! My e-mail address is:

I'm sorry but no. There is no way for me to guarantee you reside in a country where the score is public domain since it is still protected in the US. You will have to wait for it to become available when that time comes. Daphnis 07:54, 13 November 2008 (EST)
Thanks for your reply,and when will it become available? I am current living in China.

We currently don't know. Check back at regular intervals to find out. Daphnis 10:26, 14 November 2008 (EST)

Estimado Mr. Daphnis. Podría Usted decir si los derechos de Copyright de la Sinfonía No.2 prohíben su utilización en Uruguay? Cómo podría yo averiguarlo? Desde ya, muchas gracias por su respuesta...

Hola. No se, pero mira aquí: Daphnis 12:04, 15 February 2009 (EST)

Rach's Piano Concerto No.1

Dear Daphnis. Thank you very much for your sharing this score! I've been looking for its full score for many years, and you make it accessible for me. Really amazing.--maurice nuit 00:33, 29 November 2008 (EST)

Bax's "Tintagel"

Hey Daphnis:

Thank you for scanning Bax's opulent "Tintagel"--but alas it's currently being withheld for copyright investigations. Do you have any idea how long this might take? I was particularly interested in the first few atmospheric pages (before the introduction of the big themes). My library is low on Bax!

Doug Murray


Hello Daphins! Shall you (maybe) upload some Poulenc's scores (like Sonata for piano, four hands, etc.)? Thank you very much! Werther.

No, I shall not. Poulenc will not be on IMSLP until 2014. Daphnis 09:47, 8 December 2008 (EST)

Webern Op. 7

Hi Daphnis,

were the second set of five pages supposed to be the same as first? Or was the piano part scanned twice rather than once, and the violin part omitted? :)

Regards, Philip Legge @ © talk 16:29, 10 December 2008 (AEDT)

As the note in German indicates at the bottom of the first page, no violin part was produced so because of the brevity of these pieces, the score serves in the capacity of score and part. Daphnis 09:29, 10 December 2008 (EST)
Yes. However, I would have been tempted to chop out pages 6–10, you see. I might add a "Misc. note" to the work page :) PML talk 05:44, 10 December 2008 (AEDT)
Be my guest. Truth be told, I was in such a hurry to get that scanned and uploaded I didn't even catch it until afterwords. Daphnis 13:20, 10 December 2008 (EST)

Pierné, Op.6

Hi Daphnis,

thanks for picking up the wrong plate number (A.L. 7610, not A.E.) but where are you getting the year 1908 from? It might be a later reprint but the plate number would have to been originally set around 1885–88. If the original pub. date is given as 1886 then that would be the best date to put there. Regards, Philip Legge @ © talk 19:25, 10 December 2008 (EST)

WorldCat. 1886 is probably better. Best date I could find was 1908. It could be a reserved plate number but first published then. The engraving style looks earlier so I'll fix this. Thanks. Daphnis 19:27, 10 December 2008 (EST)
BTW, hopefully sometime next year I'll have worked my way to Pierné (both Gabriel and Paul) and will complete their catalogs at that time of any remaining pieces I can get my hands on since I'll be in Paris this summer. Daphnis 19:29, 10 December 2008 (EST)

Lekeu (again)

Hi Daphnis and thanks for the last two items you posted. The piano+string version of the nocturne is really amazing if you think he thought about this combination 6 years before Chausson's "chanson perpétuelle". The more I read Lekeu's music (and I should thank you again for that), the more similarities with Chausson appear to me. Also, really glad to have the funny "fantaisie contrapuntique su un cramignon liègois" which is maybe the only humoristic piece by Lekeu !. Thanks to you, IMSLP hosts the most complete Lekeu collection and maybe we are not far from the whole published music (only few orchstral pieces and the canata Andromède are missing in fact). Cheers,--Matthieu 09:32, 17 December 2008 (EST)

Hi Matthieu. Actually, I intend on completing the Lekeu complete works sometime early next year, and also I have the cantata Andromède with me now and will be scanning and uploading it this week. Daphnis 09:52, 17 December 2008 (EST)

Sweet news indeed !--Matthieu 08:17, 18 December 2008 (EST)

Rach's Symphonic Dances

Hey Daphnis. I'm new to this fantastic site, but there's something I don't understand: if where I live (Australia) deems Rach's Symphonic Dances as PD, is there any way this can be verified so that I am permitted to download it? I'm facing the same issue with both of Ravel's Piano Concertos. I've tried looking at the FAQ page, and can't find any answers.

Would you mind enlightening me please? Or would you mind emailing me the files anyway? My user email has the suffix .au, if that's enough proof?


There is no works list on IMSLP, so it's kinda hard to tell...did you submit all of Sibelius's works, or is it just some? If so, which ones are we missing?Snailey Yell at me Email me 12:25, 6 January 2009 (EST)

Of the works which are published and eligible for PD status in Canada, probably I've submitted around 98%. For a worklist, use the Sibelius article in Grove as I used that as my guide. Daphnis 18:36, 6 January 2009 (EST)

Mozart: Oboe Quartet, K. 370

B & H's 1942 claim appears to be nonsense. For one thing, they reprinted an Eulenburg score from the 1920s or 1930s. Also, who are they claiming to be the "editor"? I'll go ahead and re-tag. Carolus 01:45, 13 January 2009 (EST)

I was almost sure that was the case, but since I couldn't find any earlier date from B&H I tagged it as written. Thanks for checking up on me. Daphnis 07:46, 13 January 2009 (EST)

Composition Lists - Faure and Schmitt

Thank you for these wonderful scans! Could you please keep track of your contributions (if you have the time) on Faure's composition list, and, at some point, try to make one for Schmitt?Snailey Yell at me Email me 11:04, 15 January 2009 (EST)

Yep, I'll do that once I finish the Fauré category. Daphnis 13:23, 15 January 2009 (EST)
Thanks. What about Schmitt?--Snailey Yell at me Email me 15:14, 15 January 2009 (EST)
I suppose I'll do that sometime later. Daphnis 15:16, 15 January 2009 (EST)
Sorry to bug you...but....-- Snailey Yell at me Email me 19:49, 2 February 2009 (EST)
Yes, I know, I just don't have time to make a composition list right now. If you'd like to, I can make available to you the Catalogue de l'œuvre for Schmitt that I used in completing his project that lists it all. Daphnis 19:52, 2 February 2009 (EST)
Yes, please. Thank you!-- Snailey Yell at me Email me 20:01, 2 February 2009 (EST)
Finished excpet for linkage. Would you mind?-- Snailey Yell at me Email me 12:40, 4 February 2009 (EST)

Repeat request for adding the links...thanks.-- Snailey Yell at me Email me 12:51, 6 February 2009 (EST)

Yes, I know, I'll do it very soon. It's just such a chore to do, especially when I could be scanning new works :) Daphnis 13:53, 6 February 2009 (EST)
Thank you. Chores, however hard, make the site much nicer...I also hate adding links, although I should really be doing as such considering that I don't have access to a scanner anymore.-- Snailey Yell at me Email me 16:04, 6 February 2009 (EST)

Ok, I think it's all done. Thanks for your help. Daphnis 17:31, 6 February 2009 (EST)

Hector Berlioz Werke, and Cellini

I think I may can get that Choudens edition, but a little later and in lieu of my Mahler critical edition project (since it'll be incarcerated) I'm going to finish the older Berlioz Werke probably starting with the full score of the Damnation of Faust and then the overtures. Cellini probably later. Daphnis 12:44, 13 January 2009 (EST)

Hi Daphnis,
it's your call, though as most of the overtures are available in one form or another (the ones not here already may be found in Scorch format at I'd put Cellini ahead of them; I've updated the Hector Berlioz Werke page with plate numbers where I can, though numbering Series VII is pure guesswork on my part, as the Kalmus editions hacked out the original B&H plate number. Just so you don't double up, I will investigate trying to get the following scanned:
  • Kalmus No. 505, L'enfance du Christ FS (H.B. 27)
  • Kalmus No. 510, Le cinq Mai FS (H.B. 32)
  • Kalmus No. 1228; Choral works with orch. FS (H.B. 38–39) – only Sara la baigneuse is not available here in some form
  • Kalmus No. 1229; Vocal works with orch. FS (H.B. 42–47)
  • Kalmus No. 1234; Songs v4, numbers 19–29
  • Kalmus No. 1235; Songs v5, numbers 30–37 (probably plates 79 to about 102)
There's obviously still a good deal left to do... Regards, Philip Legge @ © talk 22:05, 19 January 2009 (EST)
Hi Philip. Good deal. I know I'd like to get at least Faust done, but since the Old Berlioz edition is about 430 pages, it'll be a long haul. I actually have access to both sets, new and old editions, and so was debating which version to put up. Aside from this, which I consider to be a huge gap in not only the Berlioz category but also the site, are there any other Berlioz works which you deem supreme and as having precedence over others? Daphnis 22:42, 19 January 2009 (EST)
Hi Daphnis, at least with Faust we have the complete vocal score by Malherbe, though it is a surprise we don't have a FS of the traditional "Three Pieces from..."
The two big gaps for me are Les Troyens and Cellini. In the case of Troyens, we have Choudens' 1863 vocal score, which included only as much as Carvalho was able to produce for the performances at the Théâtre-Lyrique. There was a private 1862/63 printing of the VS which represented the original five act plan (without the Prèlude and Marche troyenne, naturally) that didn't have the various cuts to the latter three acts. Unfortunately this score is extremely rare.
Despite the presence of volumes 22 and 23/23a in the supplement to the Old Berlioz Edition, I presume this is actually a reprint of Choudens' abridged 1885 full score: the references to the Kalmus Miniature Score series mention "various reprints" in respect of the supplement. (However if I want to confirm this for myself I would have to go the other end of the city to check the actual volumes, so I won't be doing that today!)
The concert version of the Royal Hunt and Storm, and to lesser extent the Marche Troyenne, and some of the various Ballets from the opera in Acts I, III and IV deserve to be available in full score. I have the 1978 Eulenberg reprint of the NBE score of the Royal Hunt in the concert version.
In the case of Cellini there are both vocal and full scores of the three act version Liszt conducted in Weimar, which would be better than nothing. Hugh Macdonald's NBE version is far too new to be a possibility, dating from 1992/94 (whereas Les Troyens is 1969).
After that I think it tends to personal preference. The remaining overtures (including the rarely-played Fantasy-Overture on "The Tempest", from Lélio), obviously; the full scores of Faust, Les nuits d'été, and the remaining movements of the Requiem.
I think La mort de Cléopâtre (the third of the Prix de Rome cantatas) is a must, along with Berlioz's arrangement of Weber's Invitation to the Waltz. After that the only remaining major work is Lélio, and then there are a variety of minor works in the OBE: Rêverie et Caprice, La revolution grecque, Herminie, L'Imperiale.
Finally, we should also have Berlioz's arrangement of the Marseillaise! Best, Philip talk 09:50, 21 January 2009 (AEDT)

Philip, this rare vocal score of Les Troyens wouldn't happen to be plate A.C. 11,258, would it? It's pages number 353. I also see another presumably vocal score with plate A.C. 987 that is I think the first portion (the second existing here). I would really like to see the vocal score(s) and full score of this great work up here. If I had to pick one of the 3 works, which one do you feel would be most welcome/needed? And do you have access to WorldCat? Daphnis 18:58, 20 January 2009 (EST)

Hi Daphnis,
I have access to WorldCat, though I'm not very sure of the best ways to search it: a lot of the time I either find too many unrelated results, or none at all.
I've no firm idea what Antoine Choudens' plate 11,258 is more likely to be: the number seems rather late. It might be one of the full scores, either Troyens à Carthage (1885) or Prise de Troie (1899), although these were never released for sale. (It might explain the plate number falling somewhere between the years 1907 and 1947, though.)
The only reason I doubt it is the 1862 vocal score, published privately by Berlioz through Thierry, is that 353 pages seems too few: Acts III to V encompass 271 pages (pp.26–296 of plate 988, some of which are omitted due to cuts) which would leave barely 80 pages for Acts I and II. Plate 987 has apparently got 179 pages, so might the figure of 353 pages perhaps be a mistake for 453?
It's interesting to compare the front cover of the 1862 VS at, which suggests that Choudens took their plates directly from Thierry. Of course if Choudens borrowed only the covers, and inside reset the entire vocal score, then they might easily have arrived at a different number of pages. I can't think of an explanation why they would have gone to that trouble, however. I would need to know a little bit more about that VS!
As to what is most needed/welcome, that's a really tough call.
Faust is the most frequently performed, but full scores are comparatively rare (pace Pasdeloup's "3 Morceaux").
Troyens is probably the greatest work, though as a lot of libraries have the Eulenberg miniature score one-volume reprint of the New Berlioz Edition, it's relatively easy to get hold of now, so the other half of the Choudens vocal score would be a better option. If plate 11,258 turns out to really be a copy of the 1862 VS, that would be ideal in addition to the other versions of the VS, as it would show exactly what Berlioz was obliged to cut (e.g. a scene with a captured Greek spy was cut from Act 1; it only exists now due to inclusion in that first edition).
Cellini is incredibly neglected, when Act I of the Paris version is possibly the most brilliantly scored music Berlioz ever wrote: the fact that it is so hard or expensive to get either a VS, FS, or even a recording of the work, is in my view, a crime against music.
So I'd personally welcome Cellini before Troyens and Faust, but pragmatically, I would think the reverse order would probably be preferable for most people. Best, Philip talk 10:32, 22 January 2009 (AEDT)
Ok, so I think I've found this mysterious vocal score to Troyens of almost 450 pages. University of Illinois library seems to be the only one to have it, and according to the notes in WorldCat, it was used in the preparation of the Bärenreiter new works edition. I've requested it, so we'll see what comes of it. I'm also going to scan the first portion of the opera in vocal score, Prise de Troie. The reason I asked if you had WorldCat access was if you did then I'd have you do all the leg-work and just tell me the accession numbers :) I guess I'll have to pull several of these scores myself, although I'm not nearly the authority on the subject that you are. It all starts to look confusing to me; there are probably 10 different vocal scores floating around out there just based on a combination of plate numbers and page numbers.
I can definitely get the vocal score to Cellini, but it's around 450 pages also. Since we at least have a vocal score to Faust, I may end up completing the vocal score puzzle to Troyens and adding Cellini thereafter. After seeing the Metropolitan Opera broadcast of Faust (seeing/hearing it for the first time ever) it made me want to contribute the full score. Berlioz is just amazing, period, and an important link in the French school, a project to which I have been devoting myself exclusively and will probably continue to do so until all the main players are given the write-up here. Daphnis 20:02, 21 January 2009 (EST)
Well, it's a no-go on the Thierry version of Troyens. Apparently they won't loan it out. I'll still get the first portion and put it up along with a comparison of some of the other vocal scores floating around out there. Daphnis 17:50, 22 January 2009 (EST)

Hi. As you may see, I've just put up La Prise de Troie so please feel free to cast your polished Berlioz editorial eye in its direction to smooth out any of my errata. I doubt the publication year and plate since they seem too late and too high, but perhaps this is correct. Daphnis 00:29, 28 January 2009 (EST)

D, you mean my glazed-over eye perhaps? I think I've worked out the anomaly, I'll post at Les Troyens, H 133 (Berlioz, Hector) under the "Publication History" shortly. I suspect Prise was prepared for publication at similar date to a Carthage – the two plate numbers are 11,312 and 11,258 – and Prise was either released c.1892 and reprinted in 1899 for the Paris performance by Taffanel; or, possibly more likely, Choudens held on to the plates until the next performance eventuated and printed it then. Regards, Philip Legge @ © talk 21:06, 21 February 2009 (EST)

Il trittico

Hi Daphnis, I noticed you are the primary editor on Puccini's "Il Trittico". I'd like to suggest that the 3 operas be split up into separate articles, because they are not always performed together, and they don't have a common theme such as i.e. "Les Troyens". (I'm not sure how to go about this myself, and I didn't want to step on anyone's toes...) Operalala

If I may interject, a "triptych" (spelling?) doesn't not have to be related. Plus, they aren't really known as individuals.Snailey Yell at me Email me 12:30, 23 January 2009 (EST)
Actually the individual Trittico operas are often paired with other short operas rather than with each other. There have been 2 recent high profile productions of the entire Trittico (at the MET and one of the California houses), but performing all three together is relatively uncommon. Most common is Gianni Schicchi as an opener with a one-act 20th century opera.
I agree with Operalala's perception; they are mostly known as paired with other operas because of the length. It would be perfectly fine to create new pages with each of the segments' names, then just copy the relevant info. over to that page. Daphnis 13:42, 23 January 2009 (EST)
OK I copy-pasted the 3 new pages, but I don't know how to get the General Information at the bottom to show, or if anything else needs to be done... Operalala 14:54, 23 January 2009 (EST)

US server

On Feldmahler's talk, I found this. Would you mind uploading your stravinsky there (if you can)?-- Snailey Yell at me Email me 12:23, 2 February 2009 (EST)

That's the old US Server which is not really in use any more. There's going to be a new system in place sometime for US-only files. Until then, I think the Stravinsky composer page and link to the forum post is sufficient for any new users to find the files. Daphnis 12:30, 2 February 2009 (EST)

Das Klagende Lied

Thanks for uploading such great music!

The posted version of Das Klagende Lied contains only movements two and three of the three-part work. The first movement wasn't discovered until the 1960's, but the piece makes much more sense with all three movements together-- especially as there's a story being sung out here. Most current recordings present all three movements.

So, I don't know what the public domain issues are for a recently discovered movement, and it might be a challenge to even find (e.g. the Dover edition only prints the second and third movements), but if it's a challenge you're up for, please post the complete Das Klagende Lied! It's a fantastic piece. jh31425 7:54, 6 February 2009 (EST)

If the first movement wasn't discovered until the 60's, then that means it was only printed within that time, meaning less than 50 years ago which means copyright for the world. Sorry. Daphnis 19:25, 6 February 2009 (EST)

Tannhäuser (Dover)

I have the Dover Tannhäuser in Full Score. They list the source as "C. F. Peters, Leipzig, n. d. (publication no. number 10352)". This looks like a plate number to me. (I was surprised none of the C. F. Peters Wagner operas are listed in Edition Peters/Plate Numbers.) This edition includes the 1847 revisions to the Dresden score and the 1861 Paris version appendices. It seems unlikely that the score was first published after 1923. Can I assume it is public domain? I was surprised it is not already in IMSLP, but I am willing to add it, if it is OK to do so. After reading a bit on the IMSLP site I think I need to remove any Dover additions to the score, such as page nos. and English text. Thanks for feedback. (I'm new user on IMSLP) Robert.Allen 13:41, 18 February 2009 (EST)

Yes, this score is certainly public domain and is safe to add with the omission of any front-matter included by Dover editors. Page numbers are fine to leave in, as are any in-score objects such as translations, however if there are any translations added as an appendices, those will need to be scratched. And thanks in advance for your contribution(s)! I have in mind to, sometime before my death, scan the 'Ring' operas as reprinted by Dover, but I've no idea when I'll have time to get around to that. Daphnis 13:58, 18 February 2009 (EST)

First publication of works by composers dead more than 50 (or 70) years

Faure's L'aurore being a good example. Works like this are tricky. Under the doctrine of Editio Princeps - which is in force in most of the EU (the exception being the UK), such works are entitled single term of 25 years from publication. The US status would depend on two things 1) The presence of a valid copyright notice - presumably on the title page or first music page of the collection in the case of the Faure; 2) whether it was renewed or not after 28 years. (A 1958 publication can be checked online at LoC). If Arno did not renew the Faure in 1986, it's free in the US because it was ineligible for NIE because of the 25-year term in force for Germany. Carolus 13:49, 19 February 2009 (EST)


Hello Daphnis. I am new to this site, but not to the music of Schmitt of which I have quite a large collection (almost entirely piano). So thank you for your great contributions!

I have op.55 no.2 (unfortunately not no.1) and the rest of op.45 and will scan them when I next have time.

I also have a copy of Prelude... pour une suite a venir which is also not on the site (nor in the list of works you recently posted). Unfortunately my edition is EFM 1974. My vague memory is that this work was published posthumously in which case it is copyright everywhere, but maybe you know otherwise?

For the last 10 years I have been trying to find a copy of the arrangement for piano+orchestra of J'entends dans le lointain from Ombres - the only one I am aware of is in Library of Congress but Washington is too far. Did you find it in a library? if so, where? Clarissa 18:02, 20 February 2009 (GMT)

Hi Clarissa. Yes, please do scan those in 1-bit (black & white) when you get a chance. I'd love for them to be on the site. Regarding your prelude, I don't recall seeing this in the catalog by Yves Hucher, the Durand-published catalogue d'oeuvre I used in preparing this collection (and thus the composition list here on IMSLP). Do you have any composition details? And as for J'entend dans le lointain, there are a few libraries that own this, including Eastman, and it still is available for purchase from Durand (on special order). Daphnis 14:46, 20 February 2009 (EST)
I found Prelude... in a list of Schmitt piano works which I got from United Music Publishers a while back (it is the only one not in Hucher). The score (5pp, hand-copied rather than typeset) doesn't carry much information: dedicated to Francoise et Gerard Michel, composed 11 march 1948, Gerard Billaudot Editeur, (c) 1974 Editions Francaises de Musique. Harmonically very chromatic, quite transparent writing. Clarissa 22:32 , 20 February 2009 (GMT)
Interesting. I'll have to try and find a copy for myself. Daphnis 19:28, 20 February 2009 (EST)

Page protection

After the latest vandalism spree I decided to preemptively change the protection level of all sysops' user and talk pages (including yours). The pages can still be edited by every user as before, but only sysops are now able to rename the page using the "move" button. --Leonard Vertighel 07:29, 22 February 2009 (EST)

Glazunov and my last pdf uploaded

I have just replaced all my lasts files uploaded. I don't know what's the matter with thoose. For me all worked and works very well. I can read all my old files perfectly by many readers (evince kpdf xpdf adobe8) By the way I replaced all.(I redistill all files by printing them again using adobe) If the problem persist advise me. Thank you

Ciao Carmar1791

Carmar, I just had a look at the Glazunov again. It's still present, whatever the problem is. I suspect it's how the images were created. When I try to extract them to examine the content, I can't even do that, much less view them. And these are the first PDFs I've seen that behave in this manner. What format are your images in pre-PDF creation? Daphnis 19:45, 27 February 2009 (EST)

Sibelius op. 111

Your posting of Sibelius op. 111 is not yet approved for download. As I am very interested in it: are there any further plans?


You should ask User:Feldmahler about that. Daphnis 10:07, 4 March 2009 (EST)

Massenet Melodies

Hi Daphnis -- I honestly haven't had time since the summer to work on getting scans posted. I did post 80 songs that you sent me, not sure if there were more or not. I may have time to take a look at what I still have during my spring break which is in a couple of weeks. Thanks for checking in! Massenetique 13:44, 4 March 2009 (EST)

EU Copyright for American Works Still Under Copyright

Hi, The composer in question is entitled to a full life-plus-70 term if the work is still protected in the USA. So, the Amy Beach items still protected will run until 2015 in the EU. Rule of the Shorter Term kicks in only if the US works have already expired. Beach's heirs were very bad about renewing things, and the fact that Masters didn't bother to reprint it doesn't mean that it's actually protected in the USA, but we can't actually determine their true status until the day comes when we have access to the renewal records from 1950 through 1977. Carolus 16:29, 7 March 2009 (EST)

Ok I see. I thought the RoST applied to all works by this author. I'll observe this in the future. Thanks for the tip. Daphnis 16:33, 7 March 2009 (EST)
BTW, how difficult would it be to come by these records of renewal? Are these documents that could be retrieved through library services? Daphnis 16:33, 7 March 2009 (EST)

I've been wondering about that. They were published in a multi-volume set entitled the "Catalog of Copyright Entries." My local university library, which is a designated US Government documents repository library, used to have a complete set. Sadly, in the constant drive to make space for more active areas of the collection, the volumes were put into cold storage somewhere and are completely inaccessible. The music registrations were known as "Class E" but the renewals were listed in separate volumes for some periods. Carolus 16:48, 7 March 2009 (EST)

Hmm, ok let me do some digging. I may be able to put my hands on some or all. These would be great resources to have at our disposal. Daphnis 16:51, 7 March 2009 (EST)

Opus space

Hello Daphnis, it can't help but seeing a small thing in all your uploads: there should be no space between "Op." and the number in the work page title (see IMSLP:Score submission guide/Manual of Style) .

Yeah, thanks for bringing this up. I was about to make a forum post addressing this issue but here is fine. I would suggest that even though this is a minor detail, the style guide should really be changed to include a space. The reason being that it is mostly accepted as an international standard (in academia) to separate an abbreviation's period with a space. This is how the Chicago manual defines all such formatting which is adhered to by most international citations within papers and other reference works. Besides, it just looks clearer to the eye, and not just for the opus abbreviation. However, since this seems to be and have been the trend on the site, I might as well follow it to keep some consistency and to avoid others from making a redirect for the sake of a single space. Daphnis 09:51, 14 March 2009 (EDT)